Late war Bf 109 pictures source
Hi there gang,
I started some ten months ago to reference and put online all known late war Bf 109 pictures which Werk Nummer are known; I took great care to give the reference when known. http://www.flickr.com/photos/28092068@N03/ They are all sorted out by subtypes to the best of my knowledge. The result is not really impressive: less then 400 W.Nr. known machines are illustrated out of the 10'000+ built. This leaves plenty of room for improvement, isn' it? All inputs are most welcome. Finally, if you do feel a copyright has been infringed, please let me know and I will remove the pics from public view. Cheers Marc |
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Nice image of black Bf109, do you have any more info?
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Great and interesting work.
I've tried to contribute with a few comments/corrections on photographs of ANR aircraft. |
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Caro Ferdinando,
Thanks so much for your appreciation and highly valued input. Given time and cross-expertise, I hope that this site will evolve in a an constantly updated quick reference open source for all researchers. Grazie mille Marc |
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Which particular plane are you thinking of? Cheers Marc |
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Thank you Marc for attention :) This image:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5209/...c4b8c875_b.jpg Under nose look to be bottom color but rest look like black. Too bad scan so nothing can be stated with absolute accuracy, depending of the film features this could be also red :) (I don't think that but...) |
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Interesting picture. Plane seems to have some kind of tailband. JG 300 red band?
Should be a great model then: black plane, red tailband and yellow cowl... Some rambling while enjoying my lunch... Best regards, Philippe |
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Dobro Pilot,
Yes, I see now the picture. Jochen Prien could help us along here, as he captioned the picture in his excellent book on III./JG 3. IMHO, beware interpreting it as another all black machine: "Gelbe 7" is taken against the sun; thus it could be also one of those rare overall RLM 82 or RLM 83 machines as known for the ERLA built G-10's in the 151 xxx W.Nr range. Cheers Marc |
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Thank you very much Marc :)
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August 1944 is too early for the Erla-built G-10's I think. The earliest example in dark camo that I know of is Yellow 5 of JG300 and it was photographed in December 1944. |
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Cpt Farrel- there is also sample image from Smithsonian Institute which is all black.
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I known of the all black Bf109G-6/AS that was published in the Luftwaffe im Focus series a few years back but I'm not sure whether this aircraft is similar.
Regarding the JG3 aircraft, The contrast in the photo is very high and the propblades that would have been RLM70 looks very black as well so it could be a dark camoflagecolor instead of black. Cheers! / Anders |
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Possible about JG3 machine ;)
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Hi there Anders and Srecko,
Here are the picture I know of for those all RLM 83 G-10 machines: 1. W.Nr. 150 119 http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...57625208099917 http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...57625208099917 2. W.Nr. 152 016 http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...57625208099917 3. W.Nr. 152 3.3 http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...57625208099917 4. W.Nr. unknown http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...57625208099917 Cheers Marc |
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Can you change this please? |
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Done!
Cheers Marc |
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Thank you :) Number 3 is excellent and no. 4 is still private (sorry for complains :( )
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Got it!
Cheers Marc |
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Thank you very much Marc, collection is so impressive and nice. Best part is that you have put credit on each one so visitor could do further search for publication. Last image is this one (no.4) I have seen as Smithsonian image and it look like all black machine. Any thoughts?
Cheers :) |
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Dobro Srecko,
Thanks for your praise. The colour shot of this G-10 does not convey what a black and white picture does show: an overall RLM 83 camouflage with probably natural metal wings undersurfaces, like W.Nr. 152 3.3. The G-10 colour shot was taken at Grafenwöhr airfield, in May 1945. I wil try to put my hand again on the b/w photograph and post it. Cheers Marc |
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Thank you Marc- all clear :)
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The Me109G-10 "Gigi" with the small fin IMO is "Black 7" not "White 11" I have a very clear photo (ie: neutral contrast) and there's no hint of an white eleven. I beleive, (like Me109G-10 "white 11, Rosemarie") this is also a JG 51 machine.
Otherwise a very nice album, thanks for posting it! =) |
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/ Anders EDIT: I updated my old profile of this aircraft. The choice of colors are just a theory but it looks the part in black and white. When I looked at the colorphoto of this aircraft I noticed from the wing leading edges that it seems to have had RLM75/83 wings. http://www.cptfarrels.com/blog/Bf109...doned_1024.jpg |
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Cpt Farell- profile of the same machine is published in Bf109G/K Horst Serie in France
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For comparison I did another profile for my blog based on a photo found at Neil Pages blog a long time ago. The photo depicts the right hand side of an Erla built G-10 and shows what could be a camoflagepattern that would fit nicely with the one seen on the left hand side of the "Grafenwöhr G-10".
Now I'll quit hi-jacking this thread, sorry... Got carried away. :) http://www.cptfarrels.com/blog/Bf109...0JG11_1024.jpg |
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Anders,
Thanks for your profiles. I concur for the Grafenwöhr machine, but not for W.Nr. 150 119 and 152 3.3. Those are obviously overall RLM 83 machines. As for "Gigi", I jet can't remember posting it: getting old those days;-)) Cheers Marc |
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150 119 is hard to judge since the photo is a little bleached on it's own but you might be right. 152 3.3. might just have some different shades though. Look at the area on the front half of the enginecowling for example.
I think it will be impossible to be certain of any of these schemes but at least we can be certain that it's Erla built aircraft we're dealing with. :) Cheers! / Anders |
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W.Nr. 150 119 didn't exist.
Regards Rasmussen |
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Anders,
I will look at 152 3.3 with a calm head... ASAP. Rasmussen, Thanks for your input; may I ask for your source? Thanks in advance Marc |
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Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
Thanks Oberst, for posting it.
I remember having seen it, but in which publication? Anders and Srecko, Flicking through Hideki Noro's excellent "LO+ST" (2009), I found a"huge" bunch of all dark Bf 109's pics, unfortunately without known W.Nr., as, for that matter, without much details: Bf 109 G-6 or G-14 "Blaue 51", maybe found in Lechfeld, Summer 1945. Noro 2009, p. 169. http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. 15x xxx "Gelbe 17", Salzburg, Summer 1945. Noro 2009, p. 147. http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. 15x xxx "Weisse 6", 13./JG 301, Summer 1945. Noro 2009, p. 175. http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream Bf 109 G-14/AS, W.Nr. unknown, "Schwarze 473", Fürth 1945. Noro 2009, p. 112. http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream Bf 109 G, W.Nr. unknown, "Schwarze 51", Salzburg 1945. Noro 2009, p. 148. Scan is bad but in the book it's definitely an overall RLM 83 camouflage. http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream And as the devil has it, Kemon 01 just posted today in his photo stream on Flickr a great shot of an overturned late-war Bf 109 G "Schwarze 1", as usual without any indication of date and place: http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream This pretty much rounds up what I know about those overall RLM 83 camouflaged machines. A last one strikes my mind: Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. 152 xxx "Gelbe 11" found at Deutsch Brod in 1945, and published by Janda and Poruba (2004), Messerschmitt Bf 109s of JG 52 in Deutsch Brod, JaPo, p. 46 - 53. All told, I'm surprised myself by the comparatively large photographic evidence for those out of the main stream camouflaged machines. One wonders if all were produced by ERLA? Cheers Marc |
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Schiffer Publishing - 1992 - Messerschmitt Bf109 F, G, and K. An Illustrated Study - Jochen Prien & Peter Rodeike - ISBN 0887404243
As for Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. 152 xxx "Gelbe 11" I would consider it a very safe bet the most is not all with simular camouflage schemes were produced by Erla. But I do not think it was a solid RLM 83. |
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Best regards Rasmussen |
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I'm certain that all the dark colored G-10's were Erla produced but I don't think that the earlier G's in dark camo are from the same origin. I think they might be from recycled airframes from older aircraft, put together at a repairshop and given a quick dark camo to blend the parts in, not by Erla though.
Unique for these dark Erla G-10's is that there was NO RLM 76 on the entire fuselage, the dark colors went all around. The wings were mostly natural metal with only wooden parts painted RLM76. That is totally in line with the latest RLM instructions for camoflage issued during the war. I got to read up on it but as I recall, these instructions included that the two upper colors were to be applied in a cloudy pattern and be taken down the sides directly over natural metal. A good description of my interpretation of these aircraft actually. :) Black 1 is a Bf109G-2 flown in the east by JG54 and repainted in their various greens. EDIT: Rasmussen posted while I wrote so additionally, what's your take on the colors if not 83? What about the more traditionally camoflaged G-10's from Erla, do you believe them to have been 74/75 up to the end? Cheers! / Anders |
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Thank you Marc, I have in meantime arranged few profiles, one top side is visible on our Facebook page
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Thank you Oberst :)
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