Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a nice photo of a Sharkmouth P-51 captioned as CBI theater at:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Photograph-...oAAOSwfVhf4lcO


I guess it may not be at Kunming, given that its not a P-40 as captioned.Outside my area of expertise, so can anyone provide more information on the aircraft shown? From one of the units of 51 st Fighter Group?



Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Hi Clint

Both 23FG and 51FG operated their Mustangs with Tiger Shark mouths.

Since the code visible on this P-51C is 287 I believe it is the 51FG (all P-51s I have seen from 23FG had codes in the 100 range, not counting those aircraft which belonged to their TRS)

It seems
25FS used codes in the 200-249 range
26FS used codes in the 250-299 range
16FS used codes in the 350-399 range

So this should thus be P-51C 43-25200 from 26FS 51FG
This unit was never based at Kunming, but since aircraft are moveable it is not impossible of course it could for one reason or another have been there when the photo was taken.

The usual lack of accurate date is annoying....

Cheers
Stig

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Hi Stig,


Very full information. Thank you. As you say 'outstanding' data quality. Still a nice photo I thought and so worth posting despite the obvious accuracy issues from the seller.


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Hi Stig. You are right on the numbers but also the 26th had a distinctive "wavy" sharkmouth with a large eye above. Part of the squadron was at Kunming 10/43 to 5/44 but the yellow tail bands date it from late 1944; the other 2 squadrons didn't normally have sharkmouths on their Mustangs and the 23FG used various styles on theirs.
Regards
Nick

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Ha, ha Nick :)

You got me there. No I didn't know that (or it's possibly somewhere in my books...) and I confess I don't have a good enough photo base either.

Nice to get it right without knowing the full details...:)

Cheers
Stig

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Malcolm Rosholt's book "Days of Ching Pao" has a photo of a similarly marked P-51B/C razorback. The caption notes the person in the foreground as an armourer of the 26th Fighter Squadron, and the first two tail numbers are 25...(the 3rd is not visible). The field, with low hills surrounding (perhaps the same field as this photo) is noted as Nanning in 1944.

So, Stig's tail number data seems to confirm a 26FS aircraft. Any idea where the 907th Engineers HQ was based?

There's another photo in the book of a wavy-shark-mouth P-51B/C razorback captioned: "Louis Hughes, one time commander of the 51st Fighter Group, poses with Steve Nagy in front of the 'Stenka Henna" (P-51 nose name above exhausts, tail number not visible), probably at Kunming, in January 1945."


Adding my 2c to the pot, stirring madly,
...geoff

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

The 907th Engineering Co. ( Fourteenth AF HQ) ( activated 13 July 1942 at March Fd.) was based at Kunming along with HQ Fourteenth AF Service Command .
Nick

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Nanning was occupied by the Japanese during the Ichigo Offensives in Nov/Dec 1944. (Wiki says Jan-Feb 1945.) It was likely the air squadrons were evacuated to Kunming temporarily. Kunming is some 700km to the west of Nanning and approx 300km to the east of the Japanese offensive out of Burma as part of Ichigo.


Best map seems to appear here:
https://ww2db.com/images/battle_ichigo3.jpg
(But this also appears on an alternate history webpage, so taken with a pinch of salt until confirmed elsewhere.)


So reading Nick/Buckeye's data of yellow fuselage theatre bands dating late 1944, then possible that photo is at Kunming during Ichigo evacuations late 1944/early 1945, where it is snapped by personnel of 907th Air Force Engineers HQ.



...geoff

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

There appear to be a host of other photos taken by the 907th, including one of a P-40 and a 2-bladed P-43 (possibly dummy aircraft). Perhaps some of these might help confirm timeline dates of events.


https://www.ebay.com/sch/popcentury/...&_dmd=2&_sop=1

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Chinese Ki-43
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Photograph-...kAAOSw69Ff4lrM

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Photograph-...sAAOSwWZlf4luu

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Yes, Ki-43, not an odd P-43 as I first thought. Seems very big compared to the P-40 in the foreground.



There's another photo (same aircraft, I presume) of a 2-bladed Ki-43 at Kunming in 1944 being examined by USAAF & RoCAF personnel:
http://www.usaaf-in-cbi.com/341st_we...nming_base.htm


I wonder how old or how long ago the 2-bladed Ki-43 started service in China to be still there as a captured aircraft in 1944?


...geoff

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

The captured Ki.43-I was given the Chinese number P-5017, there are some nice colour photos ( as here); it's mentioned on the warbird forum reportedly captured in 1942 ( I think in Burma which the scenery suggests, then flown to China).

https://www.warbirdforum.com/rdunn43.htm


https://www.alamy.com/nakajima-ki43-...e68620555.html

The Oscar in Geoff's ( close-up) photo was found on a Chinese beach and made flyable at Liuchow, then flown to Kunming via Kueilin and on to India for shipping to the US.


Nick

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a photo of Douglas A-20A Havoc 'Steak and Eggs Special' of 3 BG built using components from two damaged A-20 according to Joe Baugher : http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_serials/1940.html and used to ferry food and drink. Its at:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-A-20-H...MAAOSwdhJf98l9


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Thanks Clint

First time I have seen a photo of it in this guise.
Plenty of shots of it as Little Hellion including its belly landing.
Can't see the text Special anywhere though....

Cheers
Stig

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Hello,

Re: Steak & Eggs:

https://ozatwar.com/ozcrashes/qld231.htm

Col

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Hi Col,


It might just be me, but that link is not opening.However, it works if you remove the www. from the address you have provided.


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Nice Col :)

Don't believe I come across an aircraft being repainted/decorated so many times.

Clint's photo is obviously from after they took off the camo paint. The Steak and Eggs was probably not so special anymore so the Special was thus left out.

It also managed to get a new decoration before its time was up.
I didn't know about that site Col.
Thanks for bringing it to my (our) attention!!!

Cheers
Stig

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

musec04,

Thanks, have corrected same.

Col.

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a photo of North American B-25J-5-NC Mitchell 43-27987 at Middleburg Island :


https://www.ebay.com/itm/PHOTO-B-25-...oAAOSw2LRf-kCg


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay are a series of photos of Curtiss P-40 aircraft of the 49th Fighter Group at:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-USAAF-...AAAOSw7IlgBl9Z


https://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-USAAF-...4AAOSwE35gBl7W


https://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-USAAF-...MAAOSwk6BgBl2m


https://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-USAAF-...8AAOSwsWFgBl0U


https://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-USAAF-...EAAOSwWKBgBltw


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Clint.
Photo 1. "Stardust" / "Oklahoma Kid" (Reynolds) 9FS no.86 (eagle)

Photo 2. "Scatterbrain" (Ball) 7FS no.15 (Bunyip)

Photo 5. "Bob's Robin" (Vaught) 9FS no.94 (sharkmouth)

Nick

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a photo of Lockheed AT-18 42-55689 at:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lockheed-AT...0AAOSwMnde8RN3


I can't of course say whether it definitely operated on the pacific side of the USA.Has anyone more on the unit operating this particular AT-18. Also full disclosure, late night eyes again, so I hope I've not misread the serial.


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Well Clint

Text on the front says Kingman - 43 which indicates it was in use at that base in Arizona in 1943.

My knowledge about various training units in USA is next to nothing. The record card for this one is minute if Peter Marson is correct.
It was del to Harlingen, TX on 26.3.1943. Obviously transferred to Kingman at some point in 1943, but that's it.....

It is possible one can find more on the 'net but right now I am too tired.

Cheers
Stig

PS: There is another sale of the same post card, but without any further notes here
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lockheed-AT....c101196.m2219
It actually looks like 42-55569 which in such a case went to Wright Field, OH on 10 Feb 1943
Except listing it as crashed Peter has no more details about that one either.

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a photo of an aircraft captioned as an early WW2 trainer at:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/WW2-early-T...EAAOSwdVtgF1ME


Is it? A ex observation machine I assume. Not sure of the identity.Is it,in fact a Douglas O-25 so not a WW.II trainer at all?


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Pretty sure it's a Curtiss A-3, a 1927 attack development of the O-1 Falcon observation type.
Nick

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Hi Nick,


Thanks for your reply. I'm pretty happy to go with your id. Safe to assume none were around post 07.12.41 I assume? as looking at Joe Baugher's site very few survived into the early 1930s. This would be my only concern. I know virtually nothing about the paint schemes of late 1920/early 1930 USAAC aircraft, but the machine shown at least appears to be more drabbly painted than I would expect for the earlier period.

Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Oh dear should have had another look; it's got the 15th Observation insignia so obviously an O-1 !

The finish at this time ( 1920s) was overall Olive Drab except for trainers; until the Blue and Yellow scheme replaced OD mid-30s. I can't imagine any around in 1941.

Nick

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay are a series of photos of USAAF aircraft as follows:


Consolidated OA-10A Catalina


https://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-USAAF-...sAAOSwXxNgKHl4



Republic P-47 Thunderbolt:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-USAAF-...UAAOSwSvlgKHhw


North American B-25 Mitchell


https://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-USAAF-...MAAOSwBS5gKHvs


Northrop P-61


https://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-USAAF-...IAAOSwt39gKHXZ


https://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-USAAF-...AAAOSw5J5gKHRr


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

I think both P-61s are 550th NFS, the first one has their squadron colour flaps and front spinner; the second photo was taken by a 419th NFS radio-operator called Shelton on Floridablanca but going by the coloured spinner and mid-range number probably 550th.
Nick

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Hello,


Currently on ebay is a photo of an Alaska based Consoldated PB-2a at:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/30409071007...cAAOSwPVJhCC1k


The seller also has may photos of less obscure aircraft at:


https://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?item...&_skc=50&rt=nc



Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Clint,
The aircraft in the right background, looks like a Seversky XP-41 with the flush inward retracting undercarriage.


Seems unusual for that to have been in Alaska.


Regards,
...geoff

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Hi Geoff,


Nice spot. It is indeed the XP-41. It appears that the 10th AB was a destination for a number of unusual aircraft.I have a USAAF thread on the allied airforces board of this site at:


http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...ighlight=Clint


In which a YP-37 with 10AB tail markings features. Alas the photo I linked to is of course long gone.


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Clint,

What unit is 10AB?
All I find on-line is a bunch of (very nice) photos of a shiny P-40C but not any background info on the unit itself.

Curious,
...geoff

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

10th Air Base Squadron, Air Corps Technical School, Chanute Field, Illinois.

There was a branch of the Technical School established pre-war at Lowry Field (Denver), Colorado

Regards,
Leendert

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Hi Leendert,


Thanks for that. Frankly I had no idea. Could you please provide a little information on the purpose of the Air Base Squadron Technical Schools ? I take it that they were used for work on instructional airframes from the text that goes with the link below.



Also I attach a link to the YP-37 as mentioned in a previous post:


https://usaac-official.tumblr.com/po...n-in-use-as-an


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Thanks gents.


So is there a simple reason the eBay-seller thought this photo was taken in Alaska? Did 10AB send aircraft for cold-weather testing; or just in error on the listing?

...geoff

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Geoff. The 23rd Air Base Group including part of the 10th was ordered to Alaska from Moffett Fd, 4th Oct. 1040; at Elmendorf Fd. 23rd Feb. 1941 with the 28rd CG for service and support (possibly only a ground technical section).
These are 2 typical aircraft assigned at the various stations at the time. The unit designators are below the plane number reversing the previous system. Insignia is the USAAC Technical Training Command, 3 white quill pens representing the 3 components --plane, aircrew, ground crew on a gold urn, motto "I sustain the wings". Where there were extra aircraft assigned a "1" was added to the tail number.

I don't think the XP-41 36-430 left the States---at Wright Fd. then NACA Langley; can't imagine why it would go to Alaska.

http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contri...Mahan/3222.htm

https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gall...chanute-field/


Nick

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Thanks Nick.

Here's a photo of the XP-41 at Langley Research Centre - from the Internet Archive files:
https://ia800209.us.archive.org/29/i...2002-00605.jpg

I'm assuming the eBay listed photo is taken later, only because of the olive-drab P-40B/C in the background.


Regards,
...geoff

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Hello Geoff,


I suspect that others may have more information than myself,and if you've already looked my apologies, but Joe Baughers site



http://joebaugher.com/usaf_serials/1930.html


has the XP-41 with NACA until 3 April 1942. I have contacted Joe in connection with the XP-41 at 10 ABS and he was unaware of this. It seems logical at least that if the XP-41 was used as a ground instructional airframe that it would be after this date.


Meanwhile on ebay here is a photo of the Curtiss XP-46 40-3053:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/26525668248...AAAOSwOMBhDcie


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo USAAF Aircraft
 

Thanks Clint.
Although I've used the Baugher archives before, never actually found my way into that area of serials.

...geoff