Messerschmitt rivets
 

Can somebody please tell me what kind/size/DIN? rivets used Messerschmitt on Bf 108 and Me 109?

With best regards,

Marko

Working by memory and subject to correction....
 

I believe 7mm is the rivet diameter used by MTT.

HTH,
D.B.

And what about Focke-Wulf 190 rivets?

Don't have specifics, but....
 

logic dictates same size for FW. Anyone?

HTH,
D.B.

Rivert diameter?
 

D.B.

Do you mean that 7 mm rivets were used thru out a MTT a/c????. I can't imagine that. There must be more diameters used.

John.

Dural skin only....
 

sorry, I should have stated such.

Best Regards,
D.B.

Luftwaffe rivets - specifically Bf109, Me262, Do335
 

For a reference on the diameter of German rivets vs. Western Allied rivets, try OKL Sonderbericht Nr. 39 of 15 Jan 45, entitled "Maßnahmen zur Kleinhaltung des Tragflügelwiderstandes im gegnerischen Flugzeugbau" which compared the resistance of Allied and German wings, and gave reasons why the resistance of German wings was greater. One reason given was that the German rivets had a greater diameter, 7mm vs. 4mm for the Allies. This required greater force to spread the rivet heads, and caused bowing of the skinning panels, and bending of ribs, etc.

The a/c specifically mentioned were the 109, 262, and 335 vs. the Spitfire, Mustang, and Tempest.

Rivets
 

Hi guys;

Most of the rivets for the fuselage and wing, for both the 109 and the 190, including the Dora were 7mm with some 9mm and on high stress areas, such as the wing root which is heavily riveted on the Fw 190, the sizes were 10 and 13mm.
I went over the Dora 13 recently during the restoration and painting process and measured the rivets. They are very consistent as stated above.
HTH
Cheers,
Jerry

109F va. Spitfire IX rivets
 

Hi, Jerry and Judy, good to hear from you.

To check the rivet head sizes I went down to the Air Museum this morning and checked over the 109F and the Spitfire IX beside it. The problem with the 109F, of course, is that it has been restored, and so re-riveted. On one fuselage segment, I saw a line of 9mm rivets partially covered by filler, and beside it a nice line of 6mm rivets. Inboard on the wing, I got, close to the spar, heads between 8mm and 10mm; outboard I got mainly lines of 7mm heads. On the rear half of the wing I got lines of 8-9mm; but in many places, also lines of 6mm heads. On the lower cowling, 6mm; on the fin, 6.5mm; and on the horizontal stabilizer, 7mm. Under and behind the cockpit, 8mm; top of the wing radiator upper flap, 8mm; and on the top flap surface, 8.5mm. Olong the upper fuselage there were 8mm rivets along one stringer but 6mm ones along another.

On the Spitfire IX, the rivets were much more uniform. On the wing leading edge they were 8.5mm, but in all other areas they were about 5-6mm.

This pretty well agrees with the 1945 report.

Rivet sizes
 

This thread makes me confused. Are you talking about the rivet head diameter here? Or the diameter of the rivet shaft? It is the shaft diameter which is the designated rivet diameter.

For clarity in technical terms:
The rivet diameter is the diameter of the rivet shaft. Reason: It is this part of the rivet which is the actual load carrying part. The rivet head and the crushed end is "just" holding the panels together. Also the visible countersunk rivet head can be machined after assembly in order to have an absolutely smoth surface in which case the visible rivet head diameter is changed. This does not apply to round headed rivets of course. Anohter problem is that there is something called oversized rivets. These are rivets which are slightly larger (~0,2-0,3mm) than nominal size rivets. They are used when you repair the structure and have to drill out old rivets. When a rivet is drilled out the hole normally becomes a little larger and therefore a slightly larger rivet is used.

I would guess that what you call 7mm rivets is actually 3,5mm rivets and 8,5mm is 5mm.

/Thomas Adamsson

Rivet shaft
 

to my knowledge was 7 mm on most of the G-2. The engine cowling have rounded head rivets of unknown size.

Is it really that nobody here does not have any relevant Messerschmitt document that would clear this up?

With best regards,

Marko

To conclude this topic
 

Now, that I have seen a photo of 'black 6' and a factory drawing that show different size of rivets, I know that 2.6, 3, 4, 5 and 6 mm rivets with head sizes 5-20 mm were used on Bf 109 Gustav.

With best regards,

Marko

Re: Messerschmitt rivets
 

Hello Marko....I followed this thread a bit. As an aeronuatical engineer from proffession I was a little bit shocked when the talk was bout 7 mm rivets....now we known the rivet head was meant. Totally different of course. Rivet diameters from 2.6 till 6 mm are very ordinary. Solid rivets with diameters bigger than 7 mm are not very handy for riveting.....and as somebody else already said...for bearing strength the diameter is the most important thing and therefor when engineers talk about 4 mm rivets the diameter is meant!!!

Re: Messerschmitt rivets
 

According to the Bf 109 Reparatur-Anweisung of June 1942 the possible rivet sizes (shank sizes) for repairs are between 2mm and 8mm. But, in glancing through the manual, the only specific sizes of rivets mentioned for specific damage repairs are between 3mm and 5mm.

Re: Messerschmitt rivets
 

Re Rivet sizes. The English rivet sizes, Spitfire etc were; 1/16", 3/32", 1/8", 5/32",3/16" and 1/4" shank diameter, there were many different shaped heads used, the head shape and size being a ratio of the shank Dia. shank dia being dependent on the thickness of the materials ie, 20 SWG sheet would normally be 1/8" rivets thicker materials needing larger dias.

Re: Messerschmitt rivets
 

I was only a mere aerodynamicist, but I was a little surprised at the comments about the rivet head being only to hold the parts together. That is precisely the point of the rivets, they work in tension. As I understand it, a sheet of metal is at its strongest when there are no rivet holes, particularly counter-sunk ones; so a wider-shanked rivet is a bad idea, not a good one. However, that a wider shank is needed for thicker parts makes sense. So the ideal design will have a range of rivet sizes, tailored to the parts concerned. As we appear to have in the cases studied.