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The cousins Peterburs
I would like any information on my two Luftwaffe Fighter Pilot Cousins, both Oberfeldwebels. They are the brothers Hans and Heinrich "Heinz" Peterburs. I have some information on Hans; he was in night fighters and was KIA at Salerno on 11 Jan 44. Heinz was a 109 pilot and was KIA on either the 7th or 8th of April 1945 on homeland defense. Coincidently, I flew escort missions on both those dates.
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Re: The cousins Peterburs
Hi Joe
I have the following info for Hans Peterburs: Born 9 October 1912 at Herne in the Ruhr region. Served as a bomber pilot in the Polish campaign. Transfered to Zerstörers and 6./ZG 1 in Spring 1940. Transferred to 9./ZG 76 in July 1940 participating in the BofB. On 24 April 1941, 9./ZG 76 was redesignated 6./SKG 210. In action on Eastern front gaining considerable success in the ground-attack role but also adding further aerial victories. Wounded in action 24 June 1941. On 4 January 1942, 6./SKG 210 redesignated 6./ZG 1. Ofw. Peterburs awarded RK on 25 November 1942 for 18 victories in 220 missions plus 26 aircraft and 19 tanks destroyed on the ground. 1 February 1943, transferred to Stab II./SKG 210. Later transferred to II./SG 4, converted to Fw 190. Killed 11 January 1944 in aerial combat with RAF Spitfires near Tommaso. Credited with at least 18 victories in approx. 300 missions. Some sources credit him with 22 victories. Sorry, not much and quite a few holes. Hope it helps a little. Cheers Gordon |
Re: The cousins Peterburs
Thank you Gordon. That is much more information to add to my research. Joe
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Re: The cousins Peterburs
Thank you Gordon. Your information will add much to my research. Although I am in touch with my family roots in Rheda I have little information about Hanz and Heinz family. Joe P.
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Re: The cousins Peterburs
Ofw Heinrich Peterburs, born 18 Mar 16 in Boernig, was killed 5 Apr 45 in Tottelstedt. He was awarded the Ehrenpokal 30 Nov 42 as a Feldwebel. I have not found him as yet as to his unit-not JG 26 and I cannot see him listed in JG 2
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Re: The cousins Peterburs
Joe,
Check your private messages box. |
Re: The cousins Peterburs
Hi.
For your info: http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=116739 Cannot find a loss recorded for II./SKG 210 24. June 1941 Regards, Andreas B |
Re: The cousins Peterburs
I have Ofw Hans Peterburs of 6/SKG 210 wounded in combat 22 Jun 41 near Wysokie
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Re: The cousins Peterburs
Hello Joe
An off topic, have you been flying on Frantic VII operation back in September 1944? Thanks |
Re: The cousins Peterburs
Hi, Chris
Where does this turn up. Doesn't seem to be in the standard lists? The only one that is a possibility is a Oberfeldwebel Hans Peterburg (could of course be a misspelling, but as it comes from a Vordruck II I thought this to be correct), wounded this date with no aircraft damaged. http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=118360 Chris - positive this is the same guy? Regards, Andreas B |
Re: The cousins Peterburs
Hello Franek'
I did not start my combat flying until early December 1944. Got in 49 missions betwee then and 10 April 1945. My best, Joe |
Re: The cousins Peterburs
Joe
Thanks, it is very interesting. You must have had a very busy schedule. My friends who flew under RAF operational control had a much lower number of missions in the period. By the way, did you know Maj. Leonard Papuzinski? Perhaps this is a question to be asked off board, though. |
Re: The cousins Peterburs
Franek,
I did not know Major Popuzinski. I was in the 20th FG, 55th FS and am the Mustang pilot who shot down Walter Schuck on 10 April 1945. Cheers, Joe |
Re: The cousins Peterburs
Joe
Papuzinski was in another Squadron of the Group. I am looking for information about Polish-Americans in USAAF, hence the question. I know who you are, and that you have been downed by Flak in the very same mission. Then you escaped and fought with the Red Army which makes me extremelly intrigued, especially considering Soviet spy-mania. All the best |
Re: The cousins Peterburs
Franek
One of my best friends, Walter Skroback, was of Polish decent (I think). We went through RTU and assignment to the 55th FS together. Best Joe |
Re: The cousins Peterburs
Bf 110D-3, 4267, PETERBURS, Ofw. Hans (F)/n.n. (Bf), , 6., SKG 210, , S9+GP, , , 22-Jun-41, WIA due to enemy fire., , Ostfront, Vasco, The Sting of the LW, p.122, , Wysokie, b, F, ,
FW 190G-3, 160370, PETERBURS, Ofw. Hans, 18, II., SG 10, gelbe, C + -, , , 11-Jan-44, KIA due to Luftkampf with Spitfires., RK. 'grüne C'?., Mittelmeer, Obermaier, p.177, , Tommaso, 100%, F, , |
Re: The cousins Peterburs
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I will drop you an email, as I suppose moderators would not like going off topic anymore. |
Re: The cousins Peterburs
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Anyway, most of the involved here know the KC Hans Peterburs stories and the Peterburs/Schuck history anyway. But what is most of interest for me: What happend to your cousin Heinrich "Heinz" Peterburs - which unit/s, a/c did he fly, where and how was his end - why you Joe think, he, Heinrich as a German pilot and you, as an USAF, even could have ever met in the air at the same mission, a.s.o. Joe, please do not hesitate and keep all of us informed. Best, Horst |
Re: The cousins Peterburs
One of our great Mosquito aces, Russ Bannock, apparently had an Austrian cousin named Bahnuck serving with the Luftwaffe, so these stories perhaps aren't as rare as one might think.
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Re: The cousins Peterburs
Horst
Thank you for your input. As you know I have considerable information on Hans, most of it furnished by you. My concern is that all I have been able to find on Heinz is that he flew Bf 109s and was KIA on either the 7th or 8th of April 1945. His units, background and accomplishments are a mystery. I feel sure that we were in the same sky together on several occasions. He was homeland defense and I flew 15 missions into Germany's heartland in March 1945 as well as everyday from the 2nd through the 10th of April 1945. Joe |
Re: The cousins Peterburs
Hello to all!
About the same topic: distant relatives in different Air Forces, there was a Lt. Nowotny, an ace with 325th Fighter Group ( the same unit of Art Fiedler ) who could be a distant relative of Walter Nowotny ( well known ace of the Luftwaffe ). French ace, but Brazilian born, Pierre Clostermann also seems to have flown in the area where his distant cousin Klostermann ( from JG 300 if my memory do not fail me )... Adriano |
Re: The cousins Peterburs
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Nowotny is almost such a popular name like Smith, so I would not make such a guess. Clostermann was a son of French Embassy's employee, so I would be rather cautious in calling him Brasilian born, as this may suggest he had some family ties to the country. But indeed there were more such weird links, one of Polish pilots was reputedly a close relative of Albert Kesselring, that is a big wig! Quote:
I am afraid that this makes unnecessary chaos in the thread, and as a German you should appreciate this view. ;) Anyway, I can assure you that all the information that I gather, are intended to be published or at least preserved and accessible to other researchers. That said, do you know if Walter Schuck flew a defence mission in Hamburg area in the evening of 9 April 1945? :) Cheers |
Re: The cousins Peterburs
Joe: You appear to have overlooked my posting of 9 Sep which gives more info on Heinrich
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Re: The cousins Peterburs
...appears in NVM Lfd. Nr. 125 as FF Ofw. Hans Peterburs (53565/51) Bf 110 D-3 (4267)
regards, Pawel |
Re: The cousins Peterburs
2 Attachment(s)
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Thank ou for the information on Heinz. I am so intent on finding info that I failed to respond. I have a excerpts from a newspaper/magazine ? article that appeared several years ago concerning the excavation and burial of Heinz remains. Unfortunately my knowlege of German is limited, but I was able to jet the jist of the article. I am attaching it in two sections. JoeAttachment 1448 Attachment 1449 |
Re: The cousins Peterburs
Hello Franek!
I did not know that NOWOTNY was a very common name ( did heard about some variations such as Nowotni, Novotny as a commom name around the Czech and Austrian border ), this is why I used "could be" a distant relative...On my case, there were some Baumgartner(s) in the Whermacht and flying with the Luftwaffe, however for lack of information, I do not know if they came from the same branch of the family in Switzerland... You are quite right: Pierre Clostermann was the son of an Ambassy Member, however he IS born at Curitiba, Brazil - and as far as I do know - did have double nationality! He even started to fly on the Airclub of that town, flying Buckers and other airplanes as well as acting as a reporter. Before his death, he was honored by the Brazilian Air Force with the Santos Dumont Medal. I do not know how far distant was his cousin, this one that flew with JG 300 and was killed the same day Pierre flew an offensive patrol on the same area...( do not remember by heart, sorry ). Please excuse me any mispelling information ( I am writing from memory not checking the books and magazines ). Yours friend and sincerely Adriano |
Re: The cousins Peterburs
Joe - I am in active research of Hans Peterburs's shot down on 24 june 1941, have a trace to VVS docs... I hope soon we will have a picture of this combat as full as possible.
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Re: The cousins Peterburs
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Re: The cousins Peterburs
This is all the information I have on Heinz. The information was received from a Luftwaffe polot researcher some years ago as well as a magazine artical that described the finding of he and his aircraft.
Heinrich “Heinz” Peterburs was a fighter pilot with about 300 missions and 22 unconfirmed aerial victories. “Heinz” was flying his Bf 109 G-6 and was engaged in a “dogfight” with American Fighter Planes near the small city of Töttelstedt north west of Erfurt on either the 7th or 8th of April 1945. Eyewitnesses of the “dogfight” tell how “Heinz’s” 109 had a large part of its wing ripped off and crashed into the earth at a steep angle. The inhabitants of the village found the canopy from the German fighter on the east side of the village. This meant that the pilot tried to bail out but due to the low altitude he was unable to escape from his aircraft and smashed into the ground. A German salvaging group who researched such fates of war located the remains of “Heinz” and his 109 on the 30th of August 2003. During the excavation every small piece of dirt which was taken from the salvage site had to be examined thoroughly. Soon the first human remains were found and thereby it was concluded that the pilot was still in the machine. From the rubble it was concluded that the plane was a Messerschmitt Bf 109G-6 and gradually indications were found about the pilot. A ring, “wings”, an Iron Cross 1st class and something that was very important was found, the Identification disk. All the remains of the pilot were put into a coffin and placed in the mortuary of the town for keeping. From the information that was found on the identity disk the WAST (German war archives ) determined that the remains were Oberfeldwebel Heinrich Peterburs (born 18th of march 1916). On the 22nd of November 2003 Heinz was buried, with military honours, at the War Memorial at Hoetzelioda, Germany. |
Re: The cousins Peterburs
Good morning, Joe - good to "see" you on here again.
Have you checked with the archives at Freiberg? If not, I can send you the information to do so. Also, just for quick information and nothing too in-depth, you can try http://users.accesscomm.ca/magnusfamily/ww2ger.htm for the standard info. A quick use of the CTRL-F feature and typing in your last name comes up with PeterbursHansLuftwaffe18SKG210 & 10, SG4; KIA 11/Jan/1944 The 18 naturally being the kills - but only for Hans, and not for Heinrich. I understand the difficulty all too well researching family members; my maiden name was as popular as "Smith" back then. |
Re: The cousins Peterburs
Thank you Cori,
I have quite a bit of info on Hans including his log books, telgrams etc. Heinrch is the one that eludes me, I can not find any info on his units, victories, awards, marital status, children etc. I have not checked with Freidberg any help would be appreciated. Joe Peterburs |
Re: The cousins Peterburs
You're welcome, Joe;
I'm always glad to help someone if I can. I'll talk to Ed and get that information - he's working on a biography of Ernst Kupfer, and helped me with some contacts for my Oesau bio, and in turn, I'll help anyone else who needs it to the best of my ability. Best regards, Cori Here's the link for the Bundesarchiv: http://www.bundesarchiv.de/ - hopefully I'll have some more information by the end of the month. |
Re: The cousins Peterburs
Hi,
a small addition with regards to Hans Peterburs: http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=116739 Regards, Andreas B |
Re: The cousins Peterburs
Hello,
I have been exchanging information with Joe Peterburs concerning his cousin Hans, whose career with 9./ZG76 is of particular interest to the EOE Working Group due to the fact that he is reported to have scored several victories with that unit during the Battle of Britain (our research period ends 31.12.40). What Joe has is not a Flugbuch but primarily a Wehrpasa, which does have some useful information, but none of the purported victories claimed by Hans during the latter part of 1940 are documented. This also confirms that contrary to his Obermaier RKT biography, Hans did not serve with 6./ZG1 during the spring of 1940, prior to the time it was renamed III./ZG76 in July, 1940, at the beginning of the Battle of Britain. Hans was assigned to 9./Lehrgeschwader Greifswald - 9.(K)/LG1 from June 15, 1937 to March 3, 1940. He was then re-assigned to the 2./ZerstSchule Schleissheim from April 1, 1940, until August 13, 1940, apparently doing conversion training to the Bf110. Hans is purported to have scored two estimated (sometimes referred to as "turks') victories prior to mid-August, 1940, but it turns out that this would have been impossible, according to his Wehrpasa, as he didn't join a front line unit (9./ZG76) until August 16, 1940. The Wehrpasa also provides a list of his awards and medals, and the dates of his promotions, which include the following: 1.10.36 zum Gefreiter 1.11.37 zum Obergefreiter 8.12.37 zum Uffz. - Anwaerter (candidate for Uffz) 1.7.39 zum Uffz. 1.9.40 zum Feldwebel He would have later been promoted to Ofw, but this is beyond the period of the EOE research. Joe also provided one page from a Flugbuch, but it turns out that his was probably pre-war, during a training period, and wasn't the FB of Peterburs, but someone named Wolff, with whom Peterburs flew three flights. It remains unclear to me whether Peterburs' FB has survived. According to Joe Peterburs, prior to 2002 he had a lot more information, including photos of Hans Peterburs with his aircraft, but these were all lost in a computer crash. What he has left is now are scans of the Wehrpass, the RKT bio info and the single page from the Wolff FB. Inserted inside the Wehrpass is a brief summary of Hans' actions in Russia from July to Sept. 1941, although beyond the scope of the EOE Project. So, it is still not known what victories Peterburs claimed during 1940, but it is obvious that all must have been with 9./ZG76 on or after August 16th. Thus, unfortunately, what we hoped would be an opportunity to fill in some missing blanks in the victory claims record of II./ZG1 and III./ZG76 has failed. If anyone, including Horst Kube, can help us locate the FB of Hans Peterburs, if it still exists, or can provide any date confirmations on his 1940 victory claims/awards, I would appreciate hearing from you. The FB seems to be the key to this, if it can be located. My thanks to Joe Peterburs for providing copies of his documents, and Robert Szoltyk for analyzing and translating the material. I hope that this is of interest to some of you. Regards, |
Re: The cousins Peterburs
Hi:
The AG Vermisstenforschung Sachsen-Thüringen stated that the unit of Heinrich Peterburs was 3.(H)/41 = 3. Staffel(Nahaufklärer)/Aufklärungsgruppe 41. But it is not confirmed if this is the unit he was with in April 1945. And there are still different information about his date of death and the type of his a/c: April 5, 1945 (source: Volksbund) April 7 or April 8, 1945 (source: Jägerblatt 3/2005) April 8, 1945 (source: AG Vermisstenforschung Sachsen-Thüringen) Me 109 K-4 (source: Jägerblatt 3/2005 and Jens Bechtler of AG Vermisstenforschung Sachsen-Thüringen, "a/c shown at Museum Welzow") Me 109 G-6 (source: Jägerblatt, Suchanzeige 023/05) Fw 190 (source: Horst Kallenberg, historian of Töttelstädt). According to Frank J. Olynyk's "USAAF (European Theater of Operations) Credits For The Destruction of Enemy Aircraft In Air-To-Air Combat In World War 2" there are the following credits relating to the Erfurt-Gotha area: April 5 15:00 2/Lt. John R. Ellis, Jr. 12 rcn sq FW-190 W-1365 (SE of Gotha) April 5 15:00 2/Lt. John R. Ellis, Jr. 12 rcn sq FW-190 unconf dam W-1365 (SE of Gotha) April 5 15:00 1/Lt. Mingo V. Logothetis 12 rcn sq FW-190 unconf, claimed destroyed W-1365 (SE of Gotha) April 8 14:30 2/Lt. George L. Slentz 378 ftr sq FW-190 Gotha April 8 14:30 1/Lt. Charles W. Stewart 378 ftr sq FW-190 Gotha April 8 14:30 2/Lt. John J. Haverfield 378 ftr sq FW-190 prob, claimed destroyed Gotha April 8 14:30 2/Lt. John J. Haverfield 378 ftr sq Me-109 unconf dam Gotha April 8 14:30 1/Lt. Paul L. Carlisle 378 ftr sq 2 Me-109 dam unstated April 8 14:30 1/Lt. Paul L. Carlisle 378 ftr sq FW-190 dam unstated April 8 14:30 Capt. Arthur Staples 378 ftr sq FW-190 dam unstated April 8 19:00 1/Lt. John K. Rhods 12 rcn sq Me-109 J-2573 (Schaderode, close to Töttelstädt) Just hope someone can shed some light on this problem. Anyway, I am looking for a high resolution picture of Heinrich Peterburs. |
Re: The cousins Peterburs
Hi Joe
I have ten of Han's abschusse details, forward me your e.mail address and I'll send send it on. Regards Johannes |
Re: The cousins Peterburs
Johannes,
Could you share the Abschuß details with the rest of us? I have only found 6 of his claims from various sources. Thanks, Tom |
Re: The cousins Peterburs
Good Day Johannes,
Thank you for your posting. My e-mail is: japeterburs@surewest.net. I am looking forward to seeing the information you have. Thanks, Joe |
Re: The cousins Peterburs
Johannes,
Are any of Peterburs' victory claims you have from the 1940 period? Regards, |
Re: The cousins Peterburs
Hi all
havre tried to find a lose for Heinrich with Jg1,2,3,4,5,7,11,26,51,52,53,54,77300,301,302 without success. Regards Johannes P.S just a hunch but behaps he was with a ZG unit? |
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