WWII Clandestine Photo Reconnaissance
 

I am doing family history research on my uncle, Canadian, Bob Niven, and the man he worked with, Australian Sidney Cotton. They were recruited by G/C Winterbotham of the British Secret Service (SIS/MI6) and Col. Ronin of the French Deuxieme Bureau, then were provided with civilian Lockheed 12A Electra Juniors (x3), in which they installed secret camera compartments during late 1938 and early 1939. Before the war began they flew clandestine aerial photo reconnaissance flights in North Africa, the Middle East, the Mediterranean area (Including the Dodecanese Islands, Sicily & Italy) and Europe, photographing German & Italian war preparations and military installations. They had also developed a technique for keeping camera lenses defrosted above 8,000'.
Cotton owned a color film company called Dufaycolor and was contacted by a Herr Schoene about purchasing the patent rights for the process for German Agfa films (I.G. Faber Industries?), so they could market his film process on their film base. Schoene became the Dufaycolor representative in Germany and it is suspected he worked for German intelligence. He had flown with the Richthofen Flying Circus in WWI with herman Goering and later lost a leg in an air crash in South America. Schoene introduced Cotton & my uncle to Herr Traeder, who was Goering's business manager. All business deals had to be approved by Herman Goering at this time. This gave Cotton & my uncle an excellent cover for their clandestine activities inside Germany.
They also photographed Goering's secret underground bunker system while it was being built at Karinhall, from the ground and presented Goering with complimentary photos of his mansion. They were invited to the Frankfurt Air Races in August 1939 and took many high dignitaries for flights in their civilian aircraft, all the while taking secret aerial photos. Dignitaries included Albert Kesselring and the C.O. of Tempelhof Airport, Boetger.
Just before the war began they were in Berlin and had invited Goering as a personal guest for a trip to England. The purpose was for a secret meeting for Goering with P.M. Chamberlain and Lord Halifax, to convince Goering (who could hopefully convince Hitler) that England would go to war if Germany invaded Poland. The trip didn't happen and Cotton & my uncle were barely able to escape Germany a day or two before war began.
They also flew missions for Ian Fleming (Naval Intelligence) over Ireland to learn if the Germans were constructing secret U-boat pens. May have done some work for Sir William Stevenson (Intrepid), but I'm trying to learn about that. The results of their missions were usually handed over directly to Churchill by them or one of the two female members of their group, who would sometimes accompany them on missions. One was Patricia Conran, Cotton's secretary and girlfriend, and the other was Andrea Johansen, Cotton's cousin, who later married my uncle. They operated the cameras.
Once war began the RAF took over their tiny unit and they were sent to France with specially modified Spitfires to continue their work. The women weren't taken on by the RAF. Andrea married my uncle and Pat was sent to Italy to spy on the ground. The RAF now called their unit the Special Survey Flight, then by other names, like the Photographic Development Unit, The Photographic Reconnaissance Unit, 212 Squadron, etc. One part of their unit photographed the Russian oilfields when Russia was allied with Germany and a sabotage/bombing/commando raid was planned that didn't happen. Documents were recovered by German intelligence when Germany invaded France that outlined their activities and Hitler & Stalin made good use of the propaganda value in speeches they made. I suspect many of those documents went to Russia at the end of WWII.
Interestingly, the Germans were doing the same thing to the west. A Luftwaffe officer named Theodore Rowehl, was flying a civilian Junkers aircraft fitted with hidden cameras. Apparently he answered directly to Hitler and took clandestine aerial photos of southern England, France, the Netherlands, the Scandinavian countries and the Baltic coast up to Leningrad. He posed as a representative for Lufthansa Airlines, scouting out new air routes.
I am asking for help in learning anything I can about my uncle, Bob Niven and Sidney Cotton; their female companions, and Herrs Schoene and Traeder. Was Schoene with German intelligence? Did German intelligence know of their activities? My mother told the story her brother (Bob Niven) had told her that at one point the Gestapo had warned them that they knew what they were up to and never to returnto Germany or they would never be seen again. Are Traeder, Schoene or Rowehl still alive? and is there a way to find out and/or contact them? I'm also trying to learn about the business dealings Dufaycolor had with Agfa. Any other ideas, thoughts, suggestions will be appreciated. Thank you.

Re: WWII Clandestine Photo Reconnaissance
 

Too bad I know virtually nothing of interest to you.

Just this : please note the firm name was IG Farben. It was dismantled after WW II because big German "Konzern"s were accused of having helped Hitler to come to power but today they have been re-created and beyond.
In one issue of the wonderful French review "Icare" a veteran mentioned that on some French airfield 1940 a recce-Spitfire was kept in a hangar which was "severely guarded". No more details. This is not much. If you want me to I'll give you the issue number etc.

Re: WWII Clandestine Photo Reconnaissance
 

Hawkeye:

Yes, please. I would like the information you spoke re: the recce Spitfire. May give me a lead throught the vet that said it, or some other way. Thanks!
Dave

Re: WWII Clandestine Photo Reconnaissance
 

Hawkeye:

If you're into reading the French material. I'm having trouble getting information on Colonel Georges Ronin, mentioned in my first post. He was head of the air branch within the Deuxieme Bureau. He was quite a character and had an amazing story himself. The original idea to use a civilian spy plane was likely his and he collaborated with Winterbotham (RAF/SIS/MI6). They both began looking for a suitable pilot. Ronin found Cotton through a mutual associate who worked for the American Armaments Corporation based in New York, and run by Alfred and Ignacio Miranda. They were 'gunrunners' and were of Mexican descent, and one of Cotton's daughters told me that Ignacio often reminded her of Pancho Villa with ammunition bandoliers across hia chest, while Alfred was a superb dancer. Alfred contacted Cotton and met him in London, then they went to Paris, where Cotton Met Ronin. Cotton returned to London and was met by Winterbotham. That's how he was recruited. Shortly after that, Pat Conran (Cotton's girlfriend/mistress) was going to visit Lord Bennett (a former Prime Minister of Canada) and called my uncle to see if he wanted to go along. My uncle knew Bennett through his dad and had likely met Pat through him. They discussed his plans after leaving the RAF and Pat suggested he contact her boyfriend, Cotton. he did and the rest, as they say, is history.
I am having trouble getting information from the French air force archives. The French army and archives have been fantastic in their assistance. Air force archives stated they did have a file in Ronin, but that was the end of our correspondence, in spite of messages I've sent them on how to obtain copies of the information. Any ideas, thoughts, suggestions?
Thanks, Dave

Re: WWII Clandestine Photo Reconnaissance
 

Hawkeye:
Don't know if you received my response to your message or not. Thank you and yes, I would like to know the issue number, etc.
Dave

Re: WWII Clandestine Photo Reconnaissance
 

Yes I read your reply. I'll try to find that old Icare issue but, as I said, there are no details, only that a severely guarded recce-Spit was in a hangar on some French airfield. The only detail I could find is the name of this airfield. Stand by, be patient.
As for SHAA, now unified military archive (I have forgotten the new name), I am surprised by their behaviour. Try to ask them again but IN FRENCH, it could work. As a last resort you could announce your visit there, at least one month before (preferably 3 months before, repeating the announcement 1 month before) - except if you write or phone them and they tell you it's all right - and go there. After all it's virtually Paris, not so far away.

Icare and PR-Spitfire
 

Well, I screened half a dozen "Icare" issues for this passage but I found nothing. Every issue contains a lot of text. Now I really don't know where this mention could be. But I think you could find this piece of information easier in the RAF or IWM-archive : only 2 PR-Spits were based in France 1940. Finding where should not be all too difficult.
Sorry pal but I can't re-read 17 complete Icare-issues from 1970 to 1997. Good luck!

Re: WWII Clandestine Photo Reconnaissance
 

If its any help, before the fall of France, the reconnaissance Spitfires from the Heston Special Flight were renamed to No.2 Camouflage Unit and a detachment was sent to France.
At the time Spitfire PR 1Bs were being used, fitted with F24 cameras in each wing. These were up graded later to PR 1Cs.
During the Dunkirk evacuation, the French detachment of No.2 CU was disbanded and the aircraft and personnel re-absorbed back to Heston.

Re: WWII Clandestine Photo Reconnaissance
 

Have you read the book about Cotton?

I'm unsure of the name, I'll check my files.

Re: WWII Clandestine Photo Reconnaissance
 

Here's a link to a site about Sidney Cotten:

http://www.adastron.com/lockheed/electra/sidcotton.htm


Ed

Re: WWII Clandestine Photo Reconnaissance
 

Thx Ed, but already have that one. Think I've gotten most of what I can from the internet now, but thanks. Most info is coming by digging through boxes in family basements, the RAF and various "other" agencies my uncle & Cotton worked for. Waiting to hear from thew French and also from the Russian Embassy (if they ever decide to answer, since I used the "s" word for "spy'). Trying to dig out some way of connecting with Sir William Stephenson "Intrepid" records or archives (but that's proving to be difficult), since I wonder if they worked for him at all. They did sorties for Ian Fleming of James Bond fame, and socialized with him. It's been said about many people, but claims are even made that James Bond may be patterned after Cotton. Thx again for your interest. Oh, by the way, just learned about a month ago that someone is nominating my uncle, Bob Niven, to the Canadian Aviation Hall of Fame. That was a surprise.

Re: WWII Clandestine Photo Reconnaissance
 

Then see this book:

http://www.crossandcockade.com/revie...ney_cotton.htm

And, by all means, contact the Canadian Aviation Hall of Fame:

http://www.cahf.ca/whatsnew.htm


Ed

Re: WWII Clandestine Photo Reconnaissance
 

Thanks again, Ed. I have the book 'Last Plane Out of Berlin' by Jeff Watson. He interviewed most of the family over here & I've corresponded with him over the internet. Also did a documentary that didn't impress me as he didn't refer to my uncle by name, but only once as "Cotton's co-pilot". Mind you, I didn't see the first part, so maybe I missed something. So far I've found 22 books give most or some of Cotton & my uncle's experiences, and have copies of all of them. Re: the Cdn Aviation Hall of Fame. Have talked with them and the nominator's have approached me to help with the nomination brief, as I have a lot of info. But thanks anyhow.

Re: WWII Clandestine Photo Reconnaissance
 

Hallo all,

Can anyone tell me if there is a Sidney Cotton archive ? Or where might his logbooks and documents survive, if at all ?

Regards,

Martin Gleeson.

Re: WWII Clandestine Photo Reconnaissance
 

Martin: I think the Australian War Museum has some of Cotton's things, but don't know about any of his logbooks. Cotton burned a lot of his documents before he died. Might also try the Royal Air Force's Air Historical Branch. Have had very good dealings with them. Why do you want to know? We have my uncle's log books and other things. I've been doing research on them for several years now and have the benefit of family involvement, including Cotton's daughter Jill (from 2nd marriage) and talking to Pat Martin, who was Cotton's girlfriend at the time. My uncle's wife was Cotton's neice and she & Pat did some spy flights with them. Since my uncle was with Cotton from the start, my uncle's log books would reflect what Cotton was doing. The two were always together in the Lockheed until the RAF took over their unit once war started and they began flying photo recon Spitfires from French airbases.
Dave Lefurgey at e-mail: dwblefurgey@hotmail.com

Re: WWII Clandestine Photo Reconnaissance
 

Hallo Dave,

Thanks for your help, especially the leads for the Australian War Museum and the AHB. What a shame he destroyed some of his documents - hopefully this only applied to certain of his murkier postwar adventures.

My interest lies in the July-August 1945 period, around the time he purchased two more Lockheed 12s. I believe he had some business dealings in Ireland at this time but I have no idea what he was doing. Naturally I would like to !

Thanks again. Regards.

Martin Gleeson.

Re: WWII Clandestine Photo Reconnaissance
 

Martin: A good book is 'Aviator Extraordinary" by Sidney Cotton as told to Ralph Barker. If you can't find it, use www.abebooks.com website and you can find it. Our libraries use it and has booksellers worldwide. Have used it extensively and found it trustworthy and relaible over several years. There are other books and I've found 22 so far, on this topic. I can provide you with a list if you like. Re: the Irish connection. They didn't have much to do with Ireland until about September 1939 after war began and they escaped Berlin. Ian Fleming (of James Bond fame) with British Admiralty intelligence had Cotton and my uncle fly some photo recon flights along the southern Irish coast to see if there was any U-Boat pen construction going on. There wasn't. They were also to check for any anti-aircraft guns and Cotton said there was one and he knew exactly where it was because he had sold it to the Irish. Have no idea when and haven't found any documentation to say when he sold it though. Most likely Cotton obtained it through his friend, Alfred Miranda of the American Armaments Corporation based in New York City. They were arms merchants and Cotton had business dealings with them on other occasions. In fact, it was Alfred who recommended Cotton for the spy flights to French Intelligence and hence, the British. My interest and research has focused on the time before my uncle went missing on 29/30 May 1942, so have no idea what he was up to in 1945. Maybe the book or the other two places may be able to help. Just had a thought. I can ask Cotton's daughter, Jill, if she has any idea what he was up to in Ireland at that time. She had been sent to school in the USA shortly after the war began and was staying with a very wealthy American named Ben Smith ( I believe he owned a refrigerator manufacturing company) in the New York City area. She didn't see her dad much, as he was always doing business deals and travelling. Will let you know what i find out.

Re: WWII Clandestine Photo Reconnaissance
 

Martin: Heard back from Cotton's daughter, Jill. Here is her reply, "I have no idea what he was up to in Ireland. Was it Ireland proper or Northern Ireland? Because I remember flying to Belfast with him in his plane but I was only a teenager then (guessing, but that was likely at the end of or just after WWII). We spent the night with some friends of his who lived just outside the city. Sorry I can't be more helpful - you should have asked me 60 years ago."

Re: WWII Clandestine Photo Reconnaissance
 

Hallo again Dave,

Thanks for your help and interest. I only have the most recent book by Jeffrey Watson but this does not really help me. I will try to obtain the Ralph Barker title.

Only recently did I learn of the 1939 Irish overflights. However I believe the story of the single A/A gun to be pure fantasy. In early 1939 the Irish Army had only 10 A/A guns, as far as I know all properly obtained. These were four 3-inch, two 3.7-inch and four Bofors 40mm.

I was just about to reply when I saw your second post with the very prompt reply from his daughter Jill. Please thank her from me.
I refer to what is now the Republic of Ireland; then perhaps it was called Eire, the Irish Free State, Southern Ireland, etc. My friends in Northern Ireland would I am sure be jumping up and down at the idea of us being Ireland 'proper' !
Could you please ask Jill if she recalls ever landing in Dublin and staying overnight there ? The trip to Belfast is clearly (to me) a separate flight.

Regards for now,

Martin Gleeson.

Re: WWII Clandestine Photo Reconnaissance
 

Martin: Can't help much with whether it was fantasy or not about Cotton selling Eire a single anti-aircraft gun, as I learned about it from Cotton's biography, 'Aviator Extraordinary'. My interest has been in the photo reconnaissance aspects. All the principals who may have been involved are dead, or are likely so. Re: Cotton's flight to Belast. Jill was quite sure it was there and not antwhere else. It's also possible, and maybe even likely, that Cotton left his daughter with friends in Belfast and did other things. He had done similar things before. This is only a vague memory for her, as she was a teenager at the time. There isn't more to tell, because from past experience with Jill, she tells me all she knows on a particular topic. If there was more she recalled, she would have told me. Sorry we can't clear it up any more for you. You may find other information if you research Ian Fleming, who was with the Director of Naval Intelligence and it was his idea to do the 1939 flights. Churchill was 1st Lord of the Admiralty at the time and was endorsing an Admiralty take over of their photo recon spy unit. It aroused hackles in the RAF and there was a bit of a political battle between the RAF & the Admiralty at the time. The Irish flights were also a ploy by Fleming to 'get a foot in the door', or take over the photo recon unit. Some info is in Cotton's biography and Fred Winterbotham talks about it a bit in his books entitled "Secret and Personal" and "The Nazi Connection". Can find them on the Abe Books website, too. If I come across anything in my research I'll let you know. Do you have an e-mail address you're willing to give me in case I find something? I believe I sent you mine in one of these forum messages. Let me know what you find out in your research. I'd be interested. Are you writing a book or perhaps doing other research?

Re: WWII Clandestine Photo Reconnaissance
 

Hallo Dave,

Thanks for your help and the input from Jill Cotton. It adds to my knowledge of his activities here insofar as previously I knew of only one flight (to Dublin) for sure.

The 1939 flights are interesting. Next year when I have the opportunity I will check in our Military Archives to see if they have any file on the matter. However I have not come across one to date.

My E-mail address is as follows; mandkgleesonATeircomDOTnet.

My area of research are the stories of the Allied and German airmen whose aircraft crashed or force-landed in or off neutral Ireland during WW2. Plus any related aerial activities such as shipping attacks, civil air operations, etc. A great friend of mine, Tony Kearns, who often appears on TOCH is working on a book which will hopefully cover most or all of the above. I have been helping him in this endevour, but don't hold your breath !

Sincere thanks again,

Martin Gleeson.

Re: WWII Clandestine Photo Reconnaissance
 

hi,

only for information : there is a very interesting book about air reconnaissances :

All above unseen
The RAF's photographic reconnaissances units : 1939/1945
Edward Leaf
Patrick Stephens ltd publications

you may read that the 2 firsts pru spit were N3069 et N3071
N3071 is pictured when in Nancy french airfield 12/1939

Re: WWII Clandestine Photo Reconnaissance
 

To Wise62:
Yup. Have that book already, but thanks for letting me know. If you're interested, I've found about 28 books so far that talk about Cotton and my uncle. Have found a couple of references, but am still looking for any that give more than a brief mention of Ian Fleming and nothing yet on Sir William Stehenson. Cotton and Fleming remained friends after the war and it was Cotton who referred Fleming to his own heart specialist. Fleming later died of a heart attack. If anyone is interested, the following are books I've found on Cotton & my uncle, so far:
- 'Air Spy' by Constance Babington Smith (she was a photo interpreter in the unit Cotton started for that purpose)
- 'Above All Unseen' by Edward Leaf
- 'Aviator Extraordinary' by Sidney Cotton as told to Ralph Barker
- 'Evidence In Camera' by Constance Babington Smith
- 'Eyes of the RAF; A History of Photo Reconnaissance' by Roy Conyers Nesbitt
- 'History of the RAF' by Chaz Bowyer
- 'JARIC: History' booklet by the Joint Aerial Reconnaissance Intelligence Centre
- 'MI6' by Stephen Dorril
- 'MI6; British Secret Intelligence Service Operations 1909-45' by Nigel West
- 'One of the Few' by Group Captain J.A. Kent (personal friend of Bob Niven's)
- 'Photo Reconnaissance' by Andrew J. Brookes
- 'RAF Squadrons' by Wing Commader C.G. Jefford MBE RAF
- 'Secret and Personal' by F.W. Winterbotham (he was the RAF/SIS/MI6 agent who officially recruited Cotton and my uncle)
- 'Seek and Strike: The Lockheed Hudson in WWII' by Andrew Hendrie
- 'Spies In the Sky' by John Taylor and David Monday
- 'Targeting the Reich; Allied Photo Reconnaissance Over Europe, 1939-45' by Dr. Alfred Price
- 'The Bruneval Raid' by George Millar
- 'The Eye of Intelligence' by Ursula Powys-Lybbe
- 'The Last Plane Out of Berlin' by Jeffrey Watson (Australia)
- 'The Life of Ian Fleming' by John Pearson
- 'The Nazi Connection' by F.W. Winterbotham
- 'The Ultra Secret' by F.W. Winterbotham (the book that first brought the ENIGMA Project into public awareness)
- 'The Ultra Spy' by F.W. Winterbotham
- 'Top Secret Tales of WWII' by William B. Breuer
- 'The Secret War' by Charles Fraser-Smith
- 'Very Special Intelligence; The Story of the Admiralty's Operational Intelligence Centre 1939-1945' by Patrick Beesley
- 'Wings Over Calgary' by Bruce Gowans (about Niven on his home scene, not Cotton)
- WWII Photo Intelligence' by Colonel Roy M. Stanley II, USAF
There are probably more that I haven't come across yet, but most of these name both Cotton and Niven.

Re: WWII Clandestine Photo Reconnaissance
 

Hello,

about Cotton :
Anthony Cave Brown (the secret war- part I) writes about Cotton and Ultra:
(p 55 ):

"MI6 London sent Sidney COTTON with a Lockheed a/c to pick up the polish LEWINSKI,his wife and all the material about Ultra in Orly airport , France (with a spitfires escort) . LEWINSKI is one of the men who gave the secret of ULTRA to allied countries. In Orly he met Dunderdale (a MI6 man) and Lewinski family.
But a very fortunate frenchman who wanted to go over proposed a lot of money to Dundernale to be picked up. Dunderdale refused, but the same man proposed the same deal to Cotton who accepted.
In a hurry Dunderdale had to phone to London MI6 which ordered Cotton to take off whitout delay with the Lewinski and Dunderdale only".

the upper is the translation of what Anthony Cave Brown has wrote about this particular event in the story of ULTRA.

Wise62

Re: WWII Clandestine Photo Reconnaissance
 

To Wise62:
I'm familiar with the story. Fred Winterbotham talks about it in his books and so does Cotton in his own autobiography, 'Aviator Extraordinary'. I'm highly suspicious of some of the story. I don't doubt that some sort of incident happened as described, but I'm very doubtful about the part of Cotton selling seats on the aircraft. That is something a common thief or con man would do, and Cotton was anything but common. I believe my uncle was with Cotton at the time. Cotton had patents on his inventions, like the teardrop window and the Sidcot flying suit, but refused to take royalties for them since he said he didn't feel that would be right with the war on. Why would he not take money for his patented inventions, yet sell seats on his aircraft? Doesn't sound right to me. The gentleman involved in supposedly offering money to Cotton was Marcel Boussac (later founded Dupont, I think) and was a friend of Cotton's. In fact, Cotton had flown to Boussac's chateau around this time to see if Boussac had gotten out of France okay. Boussac was also a contact of Cotton's within the French gov't while he was running the PDU in France.
I'm highly suspicious of the story of Cotton considering taking money for seats on the aircraft. Remember, there were elements within the Royal Air Force that hated Cotton because of his unconventional style, success with the PDU as he embarrassed them on many occassions. They said it couldn't be done and Cotton did it. There was a group that trumped up false espionage charges against Cotton and it took the personal intervention of Churchill to stop it, but even Churchill couldn't stop everything. After Cotton left the PDU he was involved in other activities with the Ministry of Aircraft Production and obtained an aircraft and modified it. Some unknown person in an RAF pilot's uniform went to the hanger and pulled the landing gear lever while the aircraft was on the ground and caused severe damage. The aircraft was repaired and placed at a different airfield. Then exactly the same thing happened a second time. Later in the war, Cotton tried to leave England and discovered that the RAF Air Ministry had put a ban on him and he wasn't allowed to leave the country. Churchill phoned and told the Air Ministry they had exactly 15 minutes to remove the ban. They did. With these kind of things happening and the extreme bureaucratic revenge being attempted on Cotton, it doesn't stretch the imagination to think that whoever was after Cotton also planted false stories and lies about him. Other lies had been planted, but were disproved. Maybe the story of him accepting money for aircraft rides out of France was another one of those lies.
I can see Cotton perhaps giving a ride to a business friend and using that in future business deals, but to take a handful of cash for a seat doesn't seem anything like his style.
Fred Winterbotham, who was Cotton's commanding officer during the SIS pre-war spy flights was very angry at Cotton, too. When war started and the RAF took over their spy unit, Winterbotham was replaced by Cotton as the commander. A few weeks earlier Cotton had bypassed Winterbotham on another mission and Winterbotham was very angry about that. It wasn't until a while after the war that Winterbotham and Cotton would speak to each other and became friends again.
Thank you for the input. I will get hold of a copy of the book you mentioned by Anthony Cave Brown and see what it has to say.

Re: WWII Clandestine Photo Reconnaissance
 

Hello Dave, others
I have been watching this thread at a little distance.
I think the details below might be related. BAsically on July 29th 1945, a Lockheed R3O-2 (12-A Electra Junior) BuAer 2947 (c/n 1287) crash landed near Rehins, Ballina County Mayo in Ireland.
On board were the following people according to the Irish Army G2 file in Dublin Military Archives:
"1/Lt Charles C. Dodd (US Navy)
Sgt. Hale (US Navy)
Wing/Comm. TS Cotton
Mr. Janessen (Norweigen Individual)
The names are hand written in the file and thus hard to get the correct names. There is a news paper article which gives certain spellings.
It is also stated that the two passengers Cotton and Janessen were guests of a member of the irish senate for the previous weekend, Senator Quirke. The aircraft was enroute Dublin to Northern Ireland.
Would you in your research have come accross anyone of the Name Janessen opr similar in relation to the W/C Cotton you are reserching. I am only making a guess that this is the same Cotton, the initials in the G2 File certainly do not match I understand.
Theres a bit of back ground on the link below but I've not updated it since viewing the file.
Thanks for you time
http://www.skynet.ie/~dan/WAR/r3o2947.htm
www.skynet.ie/~dan/war/crashes.htm

Re: WWII Clandestine Photo Reconnaissance
 

To D P Burke:
The message you just left me is numbered #26 at the top right. You should read post #21. Looks like someone may be looking at the same thing you are. That would be Martin Gleeson.
I see the name you have is Wing Commander TS Cotton. The Cotton I am researching was a W/Comm in the RAF, but his initials were FS instead of TS. That's pretty close for just a coincidence. Martin Gleeson was looking for information on Cotton's flight to Dublin in July-August 1945. Sound familiar? I think maybe you should contact him. he put his e-mail address in Post #21 as well.
No. None of the other names you mentioned sound familiar to me. Let me know what you find out (even if it's a year or so from now) and if you send a message to Martin, let him know you were chatting with me. I'll send him an e-mail to look up your post.
Take care, Dave

Re: WWII Clandestine Photo Reconnaissance
 

HEllo Dave,
thanks for the reply. I know Martin also, he will have no doubt seen the same file as myself. I thought I'd run it past you anyway, see if you could ID the people.

Not to worry, it's late and I've just spent night wrapping presents and packing. Off home for the next 2 weeks so merry Christmas all, and have a Happy New Year!

Dennis

Re: WWII Clandestine Photo Reconnaissance
 

Dennis:
Merry Christmas to you and yours too. Glad to see not everyone has gotten too silly with the political correctness going around now.
Glad to hear you know Martin. I tried to e-mail him and I guess he isn't using the e-mail address he gave me anymore, so I can't contact him. That's ok. Mine is still valid and he can contact me.
Give regards to Martin when you talk to him. Oh. Meant to ask. To satisfy my own curiosity, what is your interest in all this Cotton stuff?

Dave

Re: WWII Clandestine Photo Reconnaissance
 

Dennis:
You said that the names were hand written and hard to decipher. Could the name of Janessen possibly be Eugene Jorgensen? If that's a possibility, then I have an interesting and intriguing postcard from March 1939 I can send you by e-mail attachment if you give me your e-mail address. Mine is still dwblefurgeyAhotmailDOTcom

Re: WWII Clandestine Photo Reconnaissance
 

Hallo Dave,

My E-mail address has not changed. However in the last week or two I have had difficulty logging on to the Internet, though I seem to be receiving Spam at an unimpaired rate !

I will try a quick post to you directly to check if all is OK from my side.

Regards,

Martin.

Re: WWII Clandestine Photo Reconnaissance
 

Hello all,
back from my holidays!! Nephews and nieces made short work of my excellent wrapping!

Anyway, Dave, the spelling of the Norwegians name is waht I took from a newspaper article in the old file. With that in mind I certainly do not take it as correct! The handwriting of the name in the file is very poor.

My e-mail address is dp_burke AT yahoo.com

Martin, you and Tony might be able to make good use of this postcard?

Dave, my interest lies in the 1945 aircraft incident only. Of course there seems to be a little bit of possible mystery to this one? All info adds to the picture no doubt.

Happy New Year
Dennis

Re: WWII Clandestine Photo Reconnaissance
 

Update for anyone interested in and reading this:
Eulogy: Received a letter from Pat Martin's (Conran) daughter, Virginnia. Pat was the lady spy who worked with Cotton and my uncle and even spied in Italy on the ground. Pat died last October in her early 90's. When I first contacted her a few years ago, she was riding her horse on her ranch in Hawaii every morning. At 18 years she sailed a boat around the Mediterranean in the early 1930's. She also did yacht racing and car racing at a time when women didn't do those things. With her spy activities in Italy, she was in the social circles of Herman Goering and Benito Mussolini. When she and Cotton broke up, she married an RAF pilot who was killed during the war, then later married a US army officer from Eisebhauer's D-Day planning staff, who later became a Brigadier General. They travelled a lot and on one trip, Pat played polo with the President of Pakistan, then took her 4 children on a horseback trek through the Khyber Pass and into the Hindu Cush, and played polo with the local tribal chieftains there. People where Pat lived in Hawaii knew & loved her, affectionately calling her their 'spy'. A couple of years ago she took an ocean cruise to South America and at 88 yrs of age went riding out on the plains with the gaucho cowboys, then went on some kind of expedition to Antarctica. She was a strong proponent for the environment. Last January she was training to race row boats in a 500 metre race. My wife and I visited her in March last year and she was the type of person who you could talk with for hours and days and not even notice the time pass. When we left, she grabbed my hands, looked me in the eye and said, "You're a rebel." My ego aside, coming from her, I consider that to be a very high compliment. She told her children that "Life isn't fair. If it was fair, you wouldn't have half the things you have now." What a remarkable woman and lady! I'll miss her. She wrote out her lifestory for her family and I've been encouaging her daughter to publish it as a book. It would be a fitting tribute, so I hope she does.

Re: WWII Clandestine Photo Reconnaissance
 

Hello again, whoever is reading this:
I received a bit of a surprise last fall when Bob Niven's son contacted me to say that one of Bob Niven's old friends from before he joined the Royal Air Force wanted to nominate his dad to the Canadian Aviation Hall of fame. He asked if I could help from all the research I had been doing and I agreed. It's taken a lot of work, but the submission to the Hall of fame finally went in about 2 weeks ago. I'm told that the "powers that be" who decide will deliberate on the submission over the summer and may contact me if the submission is accepted by early fall. If successful, then there is a formal banquet held in our nation's capital of Ottawa sometime next May or June. Here's hoping he's accepted.

Re: WWII Clandestine Photo Reconnaissance
 

For those interested, I received an answer from Canada's Aviation Hall of Fame and my uncle, Bob Niven, was not selected. It seems that because he was in Britain's Royal Air Force at the time, it's questionable what his contribution to Canadian aviation was. Haven't given up, but am starting to research the Canadian end of things more and will resubmit my uncle's nomination to them again for next year.
I have been getting a lot of "suggesting" that I write a book ever since I started this research and should have seen it coming. That was never my intention. Now people and organizations have become downright pushy about me writing a book and I've finally caved in and have begun looking at that possibility. I've been in contact with a publishing house, so who knows, maybe in a year or two I'll actually have written a book. I'm not sure if my writing skills are up to it, bit I guess I'm about to find out.
Take care.

Re: WWII Clandestine Photo Reconnaissance
 

I had provided another update, but it doesn't seem to have gone through. In researching the Canadian end of things, I've found a lot of interest from the Canadian military, plus our national Air Museum and War Museum. I was put in touch with our Air Force Association and they've asked me to wriite a 3,000-3,500 word story about my uncle, likely to be put in their Spring 2007 issue. Magazine is called "Airforce" and they advertise it as "Canada's Top-Selling Aviation Magazine". For those interested, you can look it up on their website of www.airforce.ca , and likely order a copy from them when it's published.
Take care and a Merry Christmas to all, Dave

Re: WWII Clandestine Photo Reconnaissance
 

Hello again, for those who are following this:
Well, it's happened. I wrote an article for Canada's Air Force Association magazine entitled "Airforce" and it has just come out a few days ago in their Spring 2007 edition on page 21. It's five pages long with photos and the editor's pen has been somewhat gentle with it. I was favorably impressed, as it was very professionally done and presented. For those who are interested in obtaining a copy of the magazine, copies are available for $5.00 Cdn each through the Air Force Association's website and you can e-mail Rose Lalonde at kitshop@airforce.ca or telephone (613) 232-5491. If anyone does obtain a copy, please get back to me and let me know what you think. The book is under way and I've just completed up to Chapter 15 of the "first draft" of an expected 20-25 chapters. Chapter 16 is to start with the outbreak of war in Sept '39 and the very start of the formation of the first PRU unit. I think I've also found an editor and the publishing company is Trafford Publishing, who have an office in England as well and perhaps another office somewhere else in Europe. That I don't know yet, nor do I have a publication date for the book. Thanks for your interest. I assume others are reading these posts, as the number count keeps going up each time I check this website.

Re: WWII Clandestine Photo Reconnaissance
 

Hello Dave,

Maybe of interest for you. For more than 10 years now I'm researching the crash of one of the first PR Spitfires(N-3069) your uncle worked with. Can provide info regarding this a/c and its crash near German/Dutch border east of Arnhem.

Kind regards from the Netherlands
Sander
Foundation Aircraft Research group Achterhoek(ARGA)
www.arga-nl.nl

Re: WWII Clandestine Photo Reconnaissance
 

Sander:
Yes, I would definitely be interested in any information you may have. My e-mail address is on one of the earlier posts on this thread. I tried your website, but it's in Dutch and I don't speak Dutch.
Thank you, Dave

Re: WWII Clandestine Photo Reconnaissance
 

Update for those interested:
I've had a chance to go through the "Airforce" magazine article I wrote, in some detail and find that I was wrong. The editor's pen was hard at work, and I find a lot of information about other people who were involved has not been included in the story. It almost sounds as if Bob Niven did it all by himself. However, I'm still relatively pleased with the article. If anyone hasn't been able to obtain a copy of the magazine article and would like one, please e-mail me. I've scanned the story and can send it as an attachment.
If I don't reply right away or there is a delay, then don't worry. If I get your e-mail, I will get back to you. We've just sold our house and have spent the last few months preparing and selling our house. We're moving out July 19th and into our new home in the nearby town of High River on July 31st, so I'll be off the internet for a while. Will check the computer in our public library from time to time until we are moved into our new home and up and running with the internet.
One of the interesting responses I received as a result of the magazine article, came from Scotland. It seems that a man named Rennie had a friend in Canada send him a copy of the magazine and he e-mailed me. He stated that his next door neighbour was a former PRU photographer and they were both quite pleased to read the story I wrote. It seems the neighbour, who is Jim Muncie, told him that Bob Niven was his Commanding Officer in the PRU and that he has many Bob Niven and Sydney Cotton stories, as well as many photos. We've established contact and he is interviewing Mr. Muncie for me and taping it. I would love to go over there to visit him, but I don't think I'll be able to just yet.
Take care all, Dave