The One Who got Away
 

:D Hi folks;
Can anyone help with more info Franz von Werra? Units,staffel,a/c
markings,s/n's,site of downing to be a p.o.w,final crash at sea approx.
I live near The Battle of Bowmanville,the p.o.w camp mutinied
seized arms and started shooting.All services involed,german reg's
fighting kanadian army troops on North Amrcn soil.their were casulties.
In South Oshawa there was another camp ,heard there where deaths,
service perssonel intured,after war dug up and reintured in a proper
local cemetery.Will let everyone know more soon.

Wolfgang.

Re: The One Who got Away
 

JG3 SHOT DOWN 6/ 9/40 MARSDEN KENT.
WENT TO FAME IN AUGUST 28TH 40 BY CLAIMIN 6 HURRICANES! WHILE LANDING. A VERY TALL TALE BUT I BELIEVE HIM THE RAF COVERED IT UP.
HE ARRIVED BACK IN BERLIN APRIL 41 SHOT DOWN 16 USSR PLANES OUT OF HIS 22.WITH JG53
THEN IN OCT 41 WITH HIS UNIT WITH A NEW FIGHTER ME 109 F4 HE DIVED DOWN IN THE SEA OFF HOLLAND NO MAYDAY GIVEN AT AT ALL, NO TRACE WAS FOUND EVER.
HE WAS MY HERO.AS A KID.
GARY

Re: The One Who got Away
 

Thanks Gary;
that's a big help,now ican tell the story with facts while floating
past Amherstburg with my grandson. Was the officer that tried
to cross at Niagara also A Luftwaffe regular?:)

Wolfgang.

Re: The One Who got Away
 

You might want to read "The One That Got Away" by Kendal Burt and James Leasor, published by Collins in 1956. It's a good read, and the film starring Hardy Krueger is also good fun. Von Werra was a good friend of my uncle, who was CO of 9. JG 3 during the Battle. They had many good times at the casino, and probably got along well because both were pretentious. The other officer you're thinking of might be Ulrich Steinhilper, author of "Ten Minutes to Buffalo" and an inveterate escaper.

Re: The One Who got Away
 

HI. ERM NOT SURE I KNOW THERE WERE AT LEAST 3 WHO ESCAPED. BUT NOT TO GERMANY, BUT ID UNKNOWN.
GARY

Re: The One Who got Away
 

dora9forever, is your 'cap lock' key stuck?

MELADY, JOHN. Escape from Canada! the Untold Story of German Pows in Canada, 1939-1945.
Macmillan of Canada, Toronto, (1981).. 210 pp, large 8vo (9 1/4" H), hard cover in dust jacket. B&w photos. "Captured on the battlefields of Europe and Africa, or on the open sea, 25,000 German officers and other ranks were sent to camps across this country, to live out the duration of the war behind barbed wire. Many of these men were the cream of Hitler's fighting troops, and they regarded it as their duty to escape imprisonment and return to Germany to fight again.." The story of these escapers and escape attempts, as well as of murders, riots, etc. that occured in at some of the camps.

Angler POW camp, The Escape that Shocked the Country

During World War II, Canada interred 35,046 Prisoners of War and Japanese-Canadians in 26 main compounds and dozens of smaller camps in Canada. Prisoners worked at lumbering, farming and manufacturing. Lake Superior’s inhospitable and remote shore hosted three large POW compounds at Angler, Neys, and Red Rock. A number of smaller logging POW camps were located in the rough interior along the White and Magpie Rivers. Of the 600 attempted escapes from Canadian POW camps, the largest and the most cunning was masterminded at Angler on Sturdee Cove just west of Peninsula Harbour.

http://www.lynximages.com/POW.htm

Re: The One Who got Away
 

no. my eye sights not that good. chow.

Re: The One Who got Away
 

Hi
on the subject of POW camps for German - I live about half a mile from the Glen Mill in Oldham which was used for this purpose in WW2.
My late mother in law worked at a Munitions factory near to it and often recalled looking out of the window when she was working to see the German prisoners lounging in the sun.
The father of a work colleague was also a guard there and recalled that
many of the prisoners were allowed out of the camp wearing a uniform with the letter P on the back and many had liaisons with locals!
The only time it got nasty was late in the war when some hard line Nazi prisoners arrived and were so appalled by the free and easy regime that they set up Kangaroo courts and executed several fellow prisoners by drowning them in rain barrels - this was not discovered for some time because the security was so lax. Prisoners were often stopping with their girlfriends or local families who had befriended them.

Cheers
Bruce Lander

Re: The One Who got Away
 

Dora9

No offence, but on what basis do you have to say that the RAF covered up Werra's claims of 6 Hurris in a landing pattern. Isn't it far more likely that Werra made up this unheard of and uprecidented claim. Claims, which were, incidentally, his only ones during the Battle of Britain. I would think that the Hurricanes crashing from low altitude would have resulted in some KIA -much harder to cover up than the loss of an airframe.

Rob

HI ROB .
werras claims.. some say goverments cant keep secrets look at D DAY BEFORE some E boats struck off devon sank vessels and some USA troops were killed. as to werras hurris look back 28/ 8/40 BOB was on RAF were at its knees pilots worn out airfields damaged we were losing the BOB.
.werrra claim or 4 hurris they were not claimed by the command ,only as ground kills .......
he shot down a spit on that day too..maybe a reserve airfield he came across or ferry pilots delivery hurris there.
werras claim that he lowered his undergarrige. then attacked them one he said didnt count as it was landing.it was 28/8/40 didnt a H Goring claim that his pilots were makin false claims.then to Galland and molders around that date, well werras broadcast then on radio THE RAF ..heard this then decided to disclose it maybe they were embarred by him shootin down 4 hurricanes, as to poor morle among the pilots of RAF!.ADMITING IT AND THE PUBLIC TOO THEY WERE NEVER GIVEN THE TRUE FIGURES..
as always werras claim to fame was he escapes to germany thats all he was known for.. today we have techno to tell if people lie maybe we can tell by his broadcast made then on vinyl or cd now" check if he was tellin the truth. who knows.......by his voice tones...
but thats my point thats all we all know werras mascot lion simba and flamboyance.and escape..
as to claims helmut wick[ 3 spits 5/11/40 helmut shot down a hurricane first then flew off home.then i saw 3 spits in front of me below, i meet them first the first goes down then 2rd the 3rd i dont know whats wrong with me! maybe my nerves were frayed, i attacked him then my cannon ammos gone i use my machine guns down he goes i then fly home the nerves were from summers fighting.but hey 3 spits 3 pilots who have no graves or names wicks spits was credit to him? like werras hurris they were not....
werra had no witness like wick...with the 3 spits, the RAF have no records on spit losses there that day.
ive been a fan of wick since 1975 .
GARY
sorry my reply kept lockin up all night.

Re: The One Who got Away
 

Hi folks;
Great info so far! But can anyone come up with his a/c codes
and s/n;s.Have never seen any pics of Von Werra with a/c
or mates.Thank you Vince, could you help? I would like to do
a 1/32 scale model . One would think with a movie by the other
side made about him his markings should be as famous Rall,Galland,
Hartmann,Dickfield etc.

Wolfgang,

Re: The One Who got Away
 

Hello all,

Perhaps this might be interesting - a statement by his commanding officer Hauptmann Erich von Selle, Gruppenkommandeur of II./JG 3 at that time. Sorry it is in German:

"Ich erinnere mich noch genau an jenen Tag, an dem von Werra nicht mit dem Stabsschwarm zurückkehrte. Statt dessen landete er zwei Stunden später auf unserem Feldflugplatz Samer, nachdem er in Calais Marc zum Auftanken zwischengelandet war.

Von Werra meldete dann, daß er nach dem zweiten Luftkampf, den wir an diesem Tag über der britischen Insel gehabt hatten, vom Stabsschwarm abgekommen sei. Er sei daraufhin zum Tiefflug übergegangen, um als "Heckenspringer" den Kanal zu erreichen. Dabei habe er plötzlich einen englischen Feldflugplatz mit sechs landenden Hurricane-Jägern vor sich gehabt. Von diesen habe er drei in der Landekurve abgeschossen und in mehreren Tiefangriffen fünf weitere Maschinen sowie einen Tankwagen am Boden zerstört.

(...) Als dann die Abhörstelle der Luftflotte 2 einige Tage später eine Meldung des britischen Rundfunks auffing, in der von Werras Gefangennahme mitgeteilt wurde mit dem Zusatz "er wird keine Gelegenheit mehr haben, britische Feldflugplätze zu zerstören..." (...)

Despite a in depth search for the Von Werra casualties on 28 Aug 40 (alas) I still could not match any... Perhaps somebody can provide more details on this?

Best wishes
Rob

Re: The One Who got Away
 

Hello all,

Just found a translation of Von Werra's combat report relating to 28 Aug 40 I would like to share with you.

I was flying as the Kommandeur's wingman as part of the Stabsschwarm when we attacked a formation of about 20 Hawker Hurricanes. Their formation and then ours dispersed and we fought individually I was involved in a dogfight with a Spitfire belonging to a second unit which attacked us just after the start of the combat. The Englishman hit my aircraft, destroying my radio. We lost a great deal of altitude while maneuvering into a firing position and had descended to 2000 meters before I finally managed to take aim. My adversary was hit and immediately dived. I plunged behind him while firing, more bursts, but he did not pull out and crashed three kilometers west of Rochester.

Flying again in the direction of the mouth of the Thames at very low altitude, I noticed six single-engined aircraft on my left. They had their landing gear down and were in a curve, preparing to land. I looked hard and saw ahead and below them a runway half hidden by a cloud of dust. Another formation was landing. At this time, I was only 300-500 meters behind the first group I had seen, so I also put my landing gear down and, with my engine throttled back, positioned myself behind the last aircraft which I identified as a Hurricane. As I circled over the runway like the seventh machine in the landing pattern, I could leisurely observe the airfield's dispersal area with aircraft parked under small trees to the west of the runway I did not see any anti-aircraft defences. "My formation began to land. As the first three machines lined up towards the runway and lost altitude, I retracted my wheels, opened up my engine and fired a burst at the aircraft immediately ahead of me. Instantaneously, it fell on fire. Maneuvering, I placed myself behind the second Englishman and easily shot him down in flames.

I continued to fly in the direction of the runway and then made a climbing turn to gain altitude, finally firing into the dispersal where I could just see the rudder tips of some Hurricanes protruding above the tops of their blast pens. I fired at the first aircraft, but my height did not enable me to aim at the rest. A little further away I saw a bowser with two Hurricanes parked on its right and another on its left. I fired at the bowser which exploded, setting flre to all three aircraft. Keeping at low altitude I made a half-turn away from the installations before carrying out a further attack. This time I tried to destroy the aircraft parked in the blast pens but was unable to observe any hits. The anti-aircraft defences were practically non-existent, with only a few machine-guns opening fire, but I dived towards them and forced the troops to run for shelter. I made two more attacks from different directions and set another aircraft on fire in its pen. That made five Hurricanes on fire on the airfield. A tent (undoubtedly reserved for aircraft maintenance) was also burning. Constant bursts now came up towards me from guns on the edges of the aerodrome, and I carried out my last attack against some of them. I then turned 90° towards the north, joined the mouth of the Thames and re-crossed the English Channel.

Positivelv destroved:
One Spitfire shot down in combat, crash observed,
Two Hawker Hurricanes shot down in flames near the runway as they were landing,
Two Hawker Hurricanes destroyed by fire on the aerodrome,
Three Hawker Hurricanes destroyed by fire following the explosion of a tanker; as well as a large tent (of which I could not observe the contents) with three stakes. .

(Signed) v. Werra ,(Countersigned) Oblt. Sannemann)

Nearly one month after this event, and almost certainly as a result of a higher authority seeking verification of von Werra's account, Hptm. von Selle was asked to comment. However, he could only write: "Considering the conditions of combat over England, in the majority of the cases there is no witness who can confirm or refute the declarations. Nothing, however, makes it possible to contradict the report." No doubt von Selle was referring here to his personal experience when several of his own victories - including a Spitfire shot down two days before von Werra's claims were not officially confirmed due to lack of witnesses.


Any comments...??

Best wishes,
Rob

Re: The One Who got Away
 

Great Stuff Rob!

Re: The One Who got Away
 

thanks too
Gary

Re: The One Who got Away
 

Wolfgang, a pic of Werra's crashed 109.
http://www.oldbethanians.co.uk/interesting_me109.htm

Re: The One Who got Away
 

nice picture one thats not before seen by anybody of franz von werra, on here.
GARY

Re: The One Who got Away
 

It's quite a well known pic...

Re: The One Who got Away
 

Did Ltn. Peter Krug a pilot of 6/KG 3 escape from a POW camp in Canada but not back to Germany? His photo has appeared in several books (Mason p.220) showing him being helped along by two soldiers when he was captured on 28th. Aug. 1940. I think the photo in Mason p. 314 is Gef. Burghardt of Krug's crew,

Regards

Brian Bines

Re: The One Who got Away
 

HI. thanks maybe.
GARY

Re: The One Who got Away
 

SPLINTER HIT COSTAFINE TOWN I GOT IT ON VINYL. 1973 I THINK.
gary

Re: The One Who got Away
 

I believe Peter Krug's story is in a book ''Die Ausbrecherkonige von Kanada'' . There is a copy of a Registration Certifcate dated 3-Nov-1943 showing Michael Kapinski as registered through the Brazilian Embassy Washington, and a map showing he (Peter Krug under alias?) left the USA via San Antonio,

Brian Bines

Re: The One Who got Away
 

That was a later band with that name, who recorded under the guidance of George Harrison. No connection to us, who were an early '70s Liverpool band.

Re: The One Who got Away
 

HI.ooooooopps ,, sorry.
GARY