Vichy French pilots 1940
 

Hi guys

Hopefully someone may have information regarding the following French pilots who were involved in repelling FAA attacks on Mers-el-Kebir (July 1940) and Dakar (September 1940).

I am seeking the first names of the following pilots of GCII/5 (Oran)

Sous-Lt Boudier
Lt Tremolet
S/C Legrand
Cne Portalis
S/C Gisclon
A/C Dugoujon

Bizerte E2-1 of Esc.2 was badly shot up by Skua and alighted on sea. Identity of crew required, and seriousness of damage.

Dakar (September 1940) GCI/4 pilots
Lt Milbeau
Asp Duval (killed 23/9/40)
A/C Baillet
Sgt Lemare
Cne O'Byrne
Lt Minot
Cne Cauthin

Lt de V. Hardy (GHS-7)
Lt de V. Roux (Esc.4)

M167F II/GR2 severely damaged by Skua (DBR) identity of crew?
Loire 130 (No22) shot down in error by D.501 of I/6. Details/fates of Loire crew and identity of D.501 pilot required.

Any details will be most appreciated.
Cheers
Brian

Re: Vichy French pilots 1940
 

Brian,


the first :

Sous-Lt Boudier PAUL
Lt Tremolet RENE
S/C Legrand ANDRE
Cne Portalis GERARD
S/C Gisclon JEAN
A/C Dugoujon JEAN

HTH

Bertrand

Re: Vichy French pilots 1940
 

Brian,


the following :

Lt Milbeau ROBERT

A/C Baillet PAUL
Sgt Lemare GEORGES
Cne O'Byrne PATRICK
Lt Minot PIERRE

HTH again,

Bertrand

Re: Vichy French pilots 1940
 

Hi Bertrand

Many thanks indeed, much appreciated. That just leaves the following unanswered queries.

First names required for:

Asp Duval (I/GC4) killed 23 September 1940
Cne Gauthrin (I/GC4) (not Cauthrin as previously written!)
Lt de V. Hardy (GHS-7)
Lt de V. Roux (Esc.4)

And details of:

6 July 1940: Bizerte E2-1 of Esc.2 was badly shot up by Skua and alighted on sea. Identity of crew required, and seriousness of damage.

24 September 1940:M167F II/GR2 severely damaged by Skua (DBR) identity of crew?

25 September 1940: Loire 130 (No22) shot down in error by D.501 of I/6. Details/fates of Loire crew and identity of D.501 pilot required.

Fingers crossed
Brian

Re: Vichy French pilots 1940
 

Brian,

Is it possible that the Breguet Bizerte vs. Skua encounter was on 3 July 1940?
In a report by the CO of 803 Squadron (Lt J. Bruen) and dated 4 July 1940 he writes that Sub Lt Brokensha and LAC Coston, crew of Skua L2997 "put one engine out of action and observed streams of petrol come out of the tank".

Source: www.hmshood.org.uk

Regards,

Leendert

PS Also found Justin Gisclon instead of Jean.

Re: Vichy French pilots 1940
 

Thanks Leendert - my slip once again!

I'm surprised that Duval's details have not come to light, since he was killed.

Cheers
Brian

Re: Vichy French pilots 1940
 

Found a Roger Duval on French website www.cieldegloire.com

Regards,

Leendert

Re: Vichy French pilots 1940
 

..its Jean Gisclon ...wrote a number of books post-war including "les as de l'escadrille lafayette" ..among others ..always maintained that he himself was an "ace of the Lafayette" although only ever officially credited with four ...no evidence for the fifth..

Re: Vichy French pilots 1940
 

Thanks guys for the additional information

FalkeEins: I note that Gisclon claimed a Skua on 6 July 1940 - what were his other cliams? Did he write about the Mers-el-Kebir action in his book? If so, are you able to scan me the section?

Thanks in advance
Brian

Re: Vichy French pilots 1940
 

Brian,

Just to get out of the Justin or Jean Gisclon question: it appears that his official name was Jules, Justin Gisclon, but perhaps his "nom de guerre" (at least his first name) was a mere Jean. Born 30 April 1913 in Lyon.

Leendert

Re: Vichy French pilots 1940
 

Brian,

Somehow also an entry for 3rd instead of 6th July 1940.

While escorting Swordfish a/c some Skuas of 803 Squadron got into a dogfight with 5 Curtiss 75A's.
Skua L2915 was later observed to spin into the sea.

Petty Officer Airman T. Riddler and Naval Airman 1st Class H. Chatterley commemorated on Lee-on-Solent Memorial.

Regards,

Leendert

Re: Vichy French pilots 1940
 

Hi :)

Cne André Gauthrin GC I/4

LV Hardy was flying with 4HS, and his Loire 130 was coded 4HS-7, and LV Roux with Escadrille 4E.

Bizerte n° 22 E2-1 of Escadrille E2 has been damaged on 3 july, 49 bullet holes and a large leak of fuel, but no fire. Landing at Arzew port.

Crew

LV Duval
EV (Enseigne de vaisseau) Guillevic
PM (Premier maître) Michel, first pilot
PM Guyader
SM (Second maître) Royer
SM Cleret
SM Pequignot
QM (Quartier-maître) Dubost, wounded.
QM Beunard
QM Berneau

I guess it's M.167F n° 182 of GB II/62. The plane was damaged but has been able to land at Thiès. Sous-lieutenant Quirin and crew safe.

Loire 130 n° 22 "4E-5" from Escadrille 4E has been shot down by colonel Viguier, commanding officer of Dakar-Ouakam airfield. He was leading 2 other D.501 from Escadrille 1/6. PM Collet, pilot, wounded but the 3 other crew, including EV Collet, killed.

Re: Vichy French pilots 1940
 

Hi Stephane

Wow! Thanks a million - just about clears all my queries. Many thanks.

Have you identities of Collet's crew? With first names if possible. Also first names of Col Viguier (what was his background?) and S/Lt Quirin?

Cheers
Brian

Re: Vichy French pilots 1940
 

Brian ..his claims are here http://www.cieldegloire.com/gc_2_05.php

..managed to dig out his account of the 6/7/40 victory which is in his "Chasseurs au groupe La Fayette" book, chapter entitled 'Mers-el-Kébir 3 et 6 Juillet'..I'll see what I can do

Re: Vichy French pilots 1940
 

You're welcome :) , but sorry, I've no further details.

Stéphane

Re: Vichy French pilots 1940
 

Thanks guys - super stuff!

Neil - I wait with bated breath for the translation (or scan in French)

Cheers
Brian

Re: Vichy French pilots 1940
 

In an interesting thread! I haven't read much about the Vichy French pilots.

Re: Vichy French pilots 1940
 

Hi guys

Colonel Viguier (OC Dakar-Quakham airfield) mentioned - could he have been WWI fighter pilot Armand Viguier? I believe the latter's grandson has recently edited a book about him. Anyone seen a copy? Does it confirm the above etc?

In hope
Brian

Re: Vichy French pilots 1940
 

According to the book Les pilotes de chasse francais 39-45 by Listemann, Tilley & Ehrengardt, Justin (Jean) Gisclon made the following 5 claims:

11.05.40 He 111 (shared) Bar-le-Duc
12.05.40 He 111 (shared) Ste-Marie-a-Py
06.07.40 Skua Mers-el-Kebir, Algeria
08.05.42 Fulmar (shared) Casablanca
22.01.43 Fw 190 Pichon, Tunisia

Tom

Re: Vichy French pilots 1940
 

Brian,


Ltt Jean-Marie QUIRIN. Killed in october 1941.

HTH

Bertrand H

Re: Vichy French pilots 1940
 

Thanks Tom and Bertrand

We are gradually getting there!

Was Querin killed in a flying accident?

Cheers
Brian

Re: Vichy French pilots 1940
 

quote =flying accident

certainly do not sure. I will check.

Bertrand

Re: Vichy French pilots 1940
 

Hi guys

I note that four seaplanes (Loire 130s of Esc HS2?) - two from Dunkerque and two from Strasbourg - were moored to bouys at Mer-el-Kebir prior to the attack on 3 July, and that all four took off when the attack began.

It is implied that (1) one was badly damaged by AA fire (French?) but managed to reach Arzew by nightfall (2) one put down in the sae to shake off a Skua (3) one contrived to signal the movements of the British fleet but was attacked by a Skua and also by a French fighter, but succeeded in reaching Mostaganem (4) one shadowed the British Fleet, was attacked but reached Arzew (this information extracted from Warren Tute's The Deadly Stroke).

In addition, the Birzete (E2-1) had departed Arzew at 1815 to investigate the state of affairs at Mers-el-Kebir when it ran into two Skuas and was badly damaged, alighting on the sea near Oran

Can anyone put flesh on bone? Identities of the four Loire 130s and their pilots/crews? Which was which?

In hope
Brian

Re: Vichy French pilots 1940
 

Brian,

..you don't have Morareau's 'Loire 130' tome ..?...super book ..published by Lela Presse ..link follows

Dunkerque; No. 69 HS 21 and no. 70 HS 23, pilot LV Pierre Evin... No. 69 came under British anit-aircraft fire, was then attacked by fighters, managed to evade their attentions unscathed and reached Arzew that evening...No. 70 also fended off a fighter attack by the expedient of putting down on the sea...before returning to Mers-el-Kebir...

Strasbourg; No. 60 HS 24, crew EV1 Pujade, pilot Mt Andre Troadec, not immediately clear from the text what the fourth a/c was, probably No. 50 (?)...No. 60 was assailed by flak from its own ship.. the two aircraft provided cover for their vessel and spotted for its fire before touching down after two hours in the air at Mostaganem and flying on to Arzew the following day and Algers on the 6th..

http://www.avions-bateaux.com

by the way the current issue of Lela Presse's 'Navires ...' is devoted to Mers-el-Kebir ..

http://www.avions-bateaux.com/en/cat...ogue_1061.html

Re: Vichy French pilots 1940
 

Thanks for the latest, Neil.

Any success with the Gisclon extract/translation?

Cheers
Brian

Re: Vichy French pilots 1940
 

Hi Brian

e-mail incoming via the forum...

cheers

Neil

Re: Vichy French pilots 1940
 

Hi guys

Hawk 75As of GCI/5 and GCII/5 were engaged with FAA aircraft during the Mers-el-Kebir tragedy on 3 and 6 July. Skua pilots believed they gained hits on three occasions - two on 3 July and one on 6 July. Is there any record of damage suffered by any Hawks during these actions?

Cheers
Brian

Re: Vichy French pilots 1940
 

quick answer for 3 July from Gisclon's account..

"..when we came into Saint-Denis-du-Sig, Lieutenant Trémolet was already there. He was pointing out to the mechanics the twelve bullet impacts in the fuselage of his Curtiss ..

'..if Legrand hadn't shouted a warning my career would have come to an end today', he said with a smile. His patrol been jumped by six Skuas. Legrand had shot down the enemy fighter that had caught Trémolet but had then had a narrow escape himself for which he could thank the armour plate in his machine..."

Gisclon doesn't report any damage sustained for 6 July aside from that inflicted by his victim....

" three seconds later I was on his tail as he levelled out.. I gave him a long burst from fifty metres which struck home. My incendiaries danced across his wings, setting them alight, while his gunner peppered my starboard wing. I gave him a second burst and he tipped over into a downwards spiral and disappeared into the cloud deck over the sea.."

Re: Vichy French pilots 1940
 

Hi Neil

Wow! I'm drooling! I trust you received my e-mail.

Cheers
Brian

Re: Vichy French pilots 1940
 

no, sorry, didn't get your mail - but I've send the account for 6 July via the forum..

Re: Vichy French pilots 1940
 

Hi Neil

I've sent you a PM to cover the e-mail not received by you.

Hopefully, someone will be able to confirm whether D.520s of GCII/3 did participate in the action against the Skuas on 6 July. FAA reports suggest that two were claimed damaged. Any info?

Also, the French GCI/4 pilot at Dakar named Patrick O'Byrne - what was his background? Obviously of Irish extraction but was he Irish or French? What was his fate? Any info would be appreciated.

Cheers
Brian

Re: Vichy French pilots 1940
 

Hi guys

Whilst on the subject of the attack on Mers-el-Kebir, I note that two Swordfish of 818 Squadron ditched with AA damage on returning to Ark Royal - both crews were rescued but who were they and what i/d were their aircraft? Can't seem to find any further information.

Cheers
Brian