Patrick O'Byrne GCI/4
 

Hi guys

You may have missed my earlier enquries:

At Dakar in September 1940 was a French GCI/4 pilot named Patrick O'Byrne - what was his background? Obviously of Irish extraction but was he Irish or French? What was his fate? Any info would be appreciated.


Also, hopefully, someone will be able to confirm whether D.520s of GCII/3 did participate in the action against the Skuas on 6 July. FAA reports suggest that two were claimed damaged. Any info?


Cheers
Brian

Re: Patrick O'Byrne GCI/4
 

Hi Brian: O'Byrne was WIA on the first day of the French campaign ( 10.5.40) I'm not sure if it was in the Air ,or during a bombing raid on his Airfield.Sorry.thats all I have. Cheers Dean

Re: Patrick O'Byrne GCI/4
 

Hi,

he was wounded while flying with CH-75 No.71 between 05-06.00 hours. His plane was hit over Wez-Thuisy by defense fire coming from Do 17 from the 6/KG2. I think he managed to crash-land.

Regards

Robert

Re: Patrick O'Byrne GCI/4
 

Thanks Dean and Robert

That's a start! What about his ancestry?

Cheers
Brian

Re: Patrick O'Byrne GCI/4
 

Douglas Pitcairn flew Me 109s, while Hugo O'Brien de Lacy - Yaks. Neither of them born near UK, and the latter definetelly did not spoke English at all.

Re: Patrick O'Byrne GCI/4
 

..first thought - no, since the aircraft apparently weren't serviceable.....but hopefully the SHD will confirm either way

Re: Patrick O'Byrne GCI/4
 

Wild geese? There was considerable emigration from Catholic Ireland after the Protestant victory in the Battle of the Boyne. These became known as the wild geese: there are a number of folk songs on the theme.

Napolean had a general (Marshal?) with a Scottish name. Macdonald, I think. Presumably he left as part of the Stuart/Jacobean unpleasantnesses. Catholic again.

Not so sure about Pitcairn: surely Scottish but not necessarily part of the major emigrations.

De Lacy sounds pretty Norman to me, but with the O'Brien link that again suggests the wild geese.

Yes, further information would be interesting.

Re: Patrick O'Byrne GCI/4
 

Well, there was actually quite substantial Scottish immigration to Poland after their homeland was conquered by Englishmen, and they got quite a bad reputation here. Most of them melted down, their names being gradually Polonised, and often only a family tradition reminded of their past.
O'Brien de Lacy - I only know that his father served with Polish forces in UK and spoke no English at all, much surprising the Royal Family.

Re: Patrick O'Byrne GCI/4
 

Mythical romantic history again, I'm suspect. There were as many Scots on the side of the central government in the suppression of the Highland clans, as there were on the Stuart side. Unless this emigration dates back to Edward 1st? (Athelstan being pre-"Scots" as understood today).

My own ancestors were Grahams, who operated on both sides of the Borders. When the Borders were finally "sorted" they were forcibly emigrated to Ireland, only to be sent back later as too troublesome for the Irish to cope with.

Re: Patrick O'Byrne GCI/4
 

With the "protestant" forces receiving the backing of the Pope IIRC!

Re: Patrick O'Byrne GCI/4
 

Gents, whatever, it was then believed that there was nothing worse than the Scotts! ;)

Re: Patrick O'Byrne GCI/4
 

...meant to add that his picture was published by Chris Ehrengardt in his 'Pilotes de chasse' tome - tall, thick-set chap, big bushy eyebrows - typical Breton if you ask me..haven't got the book to hand so don't recall what the caption says..

..credited with a Swordfish on 25 Sept 1940 in the aforementioned tome - a photocopied 'compte rendu d'engagement' for the action states that after O'Bryne's first burst from the rear 3/4 and another from ' plein travers', his machine guns jammed and that the Swordfish continued to take evasive action pursued by O'Bryne's wingmen capitaine Gauthrin and lieutenant Minot before it was lost from view...

Re: Patrick O'Byrne GCI/4
 

[quote=Graham Boak;53432]Mythical romantic history again, I'm suspect. There were as many Scots on the side of the central government in the suppression of the Highland clans, as there were on the Stuart side. Unless this emigration dates back to Edward 1st? (Athelstan being pre-"Scots" as understood today).

You may be suspect but it is relatively easy to do some research.

http://www.scotland.org/about/histor...ture/1576.html


Scots in Poland

From as far back as the mid 15th century there were Scots trading and settling in Poland. A Scot's Pedlar Pack in Poland, which became a proverbial expression, usually consisted of cloths, woollen goods and linen handkerchiefs. Itinerants also sold tin and ironware such as scissors and knives. Along with the protection offered by King Stephen in the Royal Grant of 1576 a district in Krakow was assigned to Scots immigrants.
Records from 1592 reveal Scots settlers being granted citizenship of Krakow giving their employment as trader or merchant. Payment for being granted citizenship ranged from 12 Polish florins to a musket and gunpowder or an undertaking to marry within a year and a day of acquiring a holding.
By the 1600s there were an estimated 30,000 Scots living in Poland. Many came from Dundee and Aberdeen and could be found in Polish towns from Krakow to Lublin. Settlers from Aberdeenshire were mainly Episcopalians or Catholics, but there were also large numbers of Calvinists. As well as Scottish traders there were also many Scottish soldiers in Poland. In 1656 a number of Scottish Highlanders who were disenchanted with Oliver Cromwell's rule went to Poland in the service of the King of Sweden.
The Scots integrated well and many acquired great wealth. They contributed to many charitable institutions in the host country, but did not forget their homeland; for example, in 1701 when collections were made for the restoration fund of the Marischal College, Aberdeen, the Scottish settlers in Poland gave generously.
Many Royal Grants and privileges were granted to Scottish merchants until the 1700s at which time the settlers began to merge more and more into the native population. Bonnie Prince Charlie was half Polish, being the son of James Edward Stewart and Clementina Sobieska, granddaughter of Jan Sobieski, King of Poland.

Re: Patrick O'Byrne GCI/4
 

Most interesting, Leonidas - thanks!

However, not really relevant to Patrick O'Byrne, methinks!

Cheers all the same
Brian

Re: Patrick O'Byrne GCI/4
 

You're right Patrick but I could not refrain from addressing this sub-thread on Scots in Poland :)

With regard to Hugo O'Brien de Lacy...his ancestor was a certain Mary de Lacy, sister of general Count Maurice de Lacy of Grodno (Polish territory occupied by Russia). The general had no children and therefore it was arranged that the husband of his sister Patrick O'Brien would adopt his wife's name or rather extend his own. That is the origin of the family name O'Brien de Lacy (also spelled de Lascy, de Lassy). The general's nephew inherited most of his fortune.

The de Lacy family has Norman roots. Numerous members of this family left Ireland in the 17th century and hence the presence also in Eastern Europe.

Up until 1939 the O'Brien de Lacys owned an estate in Augustówek (now Belarus) - once a gift from Catherine II for general Maurice de Lacy.

http://www.pinakoteka.zascianek.pl/O...Augustowek.jpg


Hugo's father was a lieutenant in the Polish army before the war. Hugo's sister Margaret lives in Warsaw.

I hope this closes up the speculations :)