Did USAAF´s 415th NFS took part on GISELA?
 

Good night to all...
I came across two victories achieved by 415th NFS pilots on 03rd March 1945:
1- 1/Lt Henry J Gilpin ( AO 00740166 )
2- 2/Lt Walter Cleary ( AO 01692656 )

Could someone inform me the kind of GERMAN machine those nigh-fighter pilots claimed and, if possible, the HOUR?

Did they took part on some kind of reaction to Operation GISELA, or simply were on routine patrols when achieved their victories?

Thanks for any enlightment on the subject

Adriano

Re: Did USAAF´s 415th NFS took part on GISELA?
 

Could it be Lt Henry Giblin and not pilot, but radar-observer Lt Walter Cleary?
They formed one crew.

These men are mentioned here and there on UFO sighting websites....

Regards,

Leendert
Brugge/belgium

Re: Did USAAF´s 415th NFS took part on GISELA?
 

Hello Leendert!
Thanks for the information they were part of a crew! I found those names on an Alphabetical list of USAAF´s Night-Fighter claims and did not know they formed a crew! I guessed they only put the names of pilots...However, being a crew, they apparently shot down something that night. Do you have any more information? Was it a BF 110, a JU 88 they claimed? I will try to find out more...thanks!
Adriano

Re: Did USAAF´s 415th NFS took part on GISELA?
 

Adriano,

According to website http://www.geocities.com/mep1100/415NFS.html the Giblin/Cleary crew had a total of two victories flying Beaufighters: a Ju-88 and a captured B-17 in Luftwaffe colors.

Unfortunately it doesn't say where and when these claims were earned.

Regards,

Leendert

Re: Did USAAF´s 415th NFS took part on GISELA?
 

On March 3 1945 was shot down by night fighter a B-17G coded A3+BB near Luvigny at 06.15 hours. Plane took off at 23.08 on March 2 1945 from Stuttgart/Echterdingen to drop supplies and agents. Probably over Central France, Belgium and The Netherlands. Plane belonged to Stab I./KG 200.

Re: Did USAAF´s 415th NFS took part on GISELA?
 

No it didn't. KG 200 codes operated on a strange system: A3+BB was an aircraft of 1./KG 200. Ju 188s A3+_D belonged to 4./KG 200.

Re: Did USAAF´s 415th NFS took part on GISELA?
 

MICHAL,
You answered my question: 415th NFS was not involved in any kind of interceptation during operation GISELA. Thanks for adding the hour and precise date of the action. Very kind of yours...
Will check on the book of KG 200 for the name of the crew flying this captured B-17. Very interesting stuff...
Thanks for all who contributed here...
Adriano

Re: Did USAAF´s 415th NFS took part on GISELA?
 

a side note Adriano from the 415th nfs microfische, the Beau crew and the ground control confirmed the crash of the B-17 at 6.20hrs and that 6 of the German LW crew were captured alive, they had just dropped agents before the Beau opened fire. the B-17 tail gunner fired several bursts before the Beau shot out the engines of the B-17.

E ~

Re: Did USAAF´s 415th NFS took part on GISELA?
 

Gilpin and Cleary were in a P-61 Black Widow. The claim was made at 0518 (I don't know what time zone they were using), at V-4881, 20 m E of Baccarat.

Frank.

See my post later in this thread. FJO.

Re: Did USAAF´s 415th NFS took part on GISELA?
 

Thanks Erich and Frank for NEW information.
Frank: it seems however that 415th NFS first received theirs P-61 on 20th March 1945 and scored NO official victories with them. So, we must assume the above mentioned crew was flying on a Beaufighter as you mentioned ( V-4881 ). Thanks again for the new information about time, place and hour of the combat. Kind of yours...
Adriano

Re: Did USAAF´s 415th NFS took part on GISELA?
 

V-4881 is in fact British Planquadrat System Coordinate. And clearly it is position wV4881 which means crash place between French villages Moussey and Le Harcholet, some 5 miles south of Luvigny.

Re: Did USAAF´s 415th NFS took part on GISELA?
 

according to their own records the 415th nfs never replaced the Beau entirely with the Widow even by the end of the war, and as mentioned by Adriano never had 1 kill with the P-61

Re: Did USAAF´s 415th NFS took part on GISELA?
 

Sorry Erich, you should read posts properly. I didn´t claim anything about what type of plane served with 415th NFS. Better to ask Frank Olynyk who is expert and say that crew flew P-61. And I only wrote that the mentioned s/n is not s/n but British Plan Quadrat which gives place of crash nearby of place of crash which I mentioned.

And that´s all. So, I don´t see any trouble.

Re: Did USAAF´s 415th NFS took part on GISELA?
 

V-4881 was my reference to the position. Reading the microfilm Sqn history (A0800 from Maxwell) there is another letter in front of the V, which is most likely a W (thus WV-4881). The film is difficult to read. As a serial, V4881 was never ordered.

Again, the film is difficult to read, but it certainly appears that the Combat report at frame 1629 states "Beau" three times. I cannot locate my copy of the mission report (this combat report is part of the squadron history for March, "outstanding missions"). I can only squint at the microfilm for so long, but I cannot see any reference to the type of aircraft held by the unit in this time frame. But I have to conclude that Gilpin and Cleary were flying a Beaufighter.

Frank.

Re: Did USAAF´s 415th NFS took part on GISELA?
 

Michal I think you mis-understand my posting. Frank has already agreed like I fully well know that the US nf ETO squadron histories on film are very hard to read, I have the 422nd/425th nfs, the 416-418th nfs as well. there are good points and bad points trying to detract the films wording. Even after years of contacting and interviewing many P-61 ETO crews ~ over the last 25 years the summation has been from all of them to take the micro-films as fact.........

also during the time frame of the late 1970's till the closure of the US night fighter association I was a member.....

do we understand each other now I hope, and as far as I am concerned there never was any trouble we were all adding our two cents trying to figure out who shot down the Fw 200 ~ B-17

Erich ~

Erich

Re: Did USAAF´s 415th NFS took part on GISELA?
 

Michal, Erik and Frank,
I do have a great admiration for Historians like you! I am, since I joined this Forum, always learning and meeting incredible people...We should met someday, drink some beers and make a barbecue...I am sure we would have a lot to talk about...I am just joking, but am sure that could be done between people of the same continent...
Thanks for both of you for inform me the British system of co-ordinates. I swear I tought it was the serial number of a Beaufighter...and ERICH, you certainly must have had good contacts with the NF boys of the USAAF. I congratulate you...it is a pity that this Association closed its doors.
A cordial thanks to both of you ( x 3 )
Adriano