Luftwaffe rescue buoys
 

I hope this will be the start of a more in depth investigation.


http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/t...scue-buoy.html




Ed

Re: Luftwaffe rescue buoys
 

Some photos:


http://www.flickr.com/photos/dirk_br...7602180011317/



Ed

Re: Luftwaffe rescue buoys
 

Hello Ed,
thanks for the nice pictures. It should be noted here that these buoys helped also a certain number of RAF Flyers to survive. At that time of the war there was still a kind of chivalry. Udet was a famous pilot in WWI and later on. he killled himself in the war. ( "Des Teufels General!")
Peter

Re: Luftwaffe rescue buoys
 

Hi guys

Most interesting!

I've only vaguely known of these. Do we know of any specific ultimate rescues from the bouys - Luftwaffe and RAF?

Cheers
Brian

Re: Luftwaffe rescue buoys
 

I do not think so.

Re: Luftwaffe rescue buoys
 

"..The famous ‘Udet-Seenotbojen’ (rescue buoys) were unfortunately not as useful as they had promised to be...although marked very obviously with a red cross, they were immediately shot up by the Tommies..."

Uffz. Rothenfelder (9./JG 2) in 'Dans le ciel de France' (Erik Mombeeck)

Re: Luftwaffe rescue buoys
 

A statment from the horses mouth, why do you not belive in it?

Peter

Re: Luftwaffe rescue buoys
 

I do not say I do not believe it, I do say it is not true. Anyone can verify it by reading documents and accounts. Most of the 'chivalry' stories were born years after the war ended, most probably because such stories 'sell' well.

Re: Luftwaffe rescue buoys
 

Although it is true that the Udet-buoys were shot at by the British, they still saved a lot of lives (Germans and British airmen).

The RAF used similar floating rescue stations and were they left alone by the Germans ? I have no data for that but I am sure the Germans also attacked the British floating stations.

To my knowledge the "chivalry" in airwarfare was blown away by the Germans when they used He-59s with Red Cross markings to shadow British convoys and subsequently sent information about these convoys to the German U-boat wolfpacks.

Regards,
Jan

Regards,
Jan

Re: Luftwaffe rescue buoys
 

Still, their purpose was to save Germans and not British.
There chivalry stopped already during WWI, and there was no chivalry at all during WWII.

Re: Luftwaffe rescue buoys
 

Franek, that is a strong statement, but I guess you were there to experience it.

Peter

Re: Luftwaffe rescue buoys
 

Hi Franek,
out of a book "The NJ War Diaries" by Dutch historians which will be published in 2008 in the UK:


"There were also chivalrous actions from aviators on both sides - English bombers whose target was obscured while on the bombing run did not always salvo their cargoes over an already blazing city indisciminately but sought out alternative targets, putting their own lives in heightened danger. Or German nightfighters who aimed for the wings of the bomber when opening fire, giving the RAF crews time to prepare to bale out."


my best wishes to you for 2008
Peter (NJG 5/6)

Re: Luftwaffe rescue buoys
 

Hello Peter

There is also the amazing Georg-Peter Eder whose personal chivalry is illustrated here:

http://www.airartnw.com/notmyturn.htm

Regards and Happy New Year!

Chris

Re: Luftwaffe rescue buoys
 

Peter
The one may find such entries in documents but the reasoning had nothing to chivalry. If the target was ablaze it was a good reason to set fire elsewhere. Otherwise in the early period there were several problems with accuracy of attacks, crews being unable to find proper targets without navigation aids, or not willing to attack heavily defended cities. This resulted with confirming photographs being introduced. Then, if the target was obscured, photos would not show it and the mission will not be credited to the crew.
Explosion of fumes would not give much time to evacuate. Most of crews taking part in the Warsaw Airlift and shot down by fighters of NJG6 and NJG 101 did not survive.

Chris
Eder was a hero of several such stories, but as far as I know, neither of them could have been confirmed. I recall reading that the story of Johnson's flight was a fake, just the same as the story of a ghost P-40.

Very best wishes to both of you

Re: Luftwaffe rescue buoys
 

Aw Franek you've gone and ruined my Christmas now! I thought I'd found a 'nice Nazi'. Oh well...............

Happy New Year to you!

Chris

Re: Luftwaffe rescue buoys
 

Sorry, but you would not find a nice Nazi or Commie. ;)
Certainly there were some decent people worth to remember, but their air force was not, and the air war was just a brute massacre.
Most of the stories originate from 1950s or 1960s and I would guess they were part of propaganda policy trying to explain why Western Germany was an ally of NATO. Here, we had stories of brave German anti-faschists fighting arm in arm with the Red Army. The truth is less chivalrous, more complicated but nonetheless still fascinating.

Re: Luftwaffe rescue buoys
 

Was not the incident when Eder was shot down and wounded in 1944 when he was giving Michal Gladych the chance to land his damaged P-47 on a Luftwaffe airfield true. As Gladych was in front in the landing pattern it was reported he opened fire causing the airfield Flak to open up hitting Eders Fw 190. Several reports state the incident was verified when Eder and Gladych met up post war and was an article in the RAF Flying Review magazine in the 1950's,

All the best for the New year,

Brian Bines

Re: Luftwaffe rescue buoys
 

One of the stories! Gładych could not have met Eder in the air, his famous combat over Vechta being on 8 March 1944.

Re: Luftwaffe rescue buoys
 

Thanks Franek, are there any known Luftwaffe losses which link to Gladych's claims for this incident,

Regards

Brian Bines

Re: Luftwaffe rescue buoys
 

And you know this how? As an historian you should know better than making sweeping statements such as this. Comments like this are poor history and degrading to the few combatants who did follow their heart and not their gut.

Re: Luftwaffe rescue buoys
 

Hi,

he just know everything. He is a master.

Regards

Robert

Re: Luftwaffe rescue buoys
 

Brian
I have not researched this particular combat, but I think there was some mess in the air involving several German losses. I think JG1 fought in the area.
Adam
Please, find me any examples of the chivalry in the air that can be verified through the period documents. I do not mean here generosity towards prisoners, which happened indeed. Deliberate attacks on purely civilian targets or strafing of airmen on parachutes started on the very first day of the war, and it worsened in time.

Re: Luftwaffe rescue buoys
 

Hello and a Happy new Year to you ALL,

Now, back to the Rescue Bouys.

Some were "captured" probably broke moorings and drifted ashore on English coast.
They were repaired and put back in use but with british markings.

I read this somewhere but please do not ask me where as it was some time ago.

There is a section with colour drawings in the Book "Battle of Britain" by Len Deighton.

I have not as yet seen any drawing or photo of a British Rescue Bouy.

All the very best for 2008

Alex

Re: Luftwaffe rescue buoys
 

You're the one claiming there was no chivalry, period. Ergo, you're the one required to submit proof. Simply because you don't know of any instances put on paper or do not believe the word of veterans, does not mean that such never happened.

Re: Luftwaffe rescue buoys
 

The one cannot prove something that does not exist. It is logic. And I do not believe any statements that cannot be corroborated, be it coming from veterans or anybody else.

Re: Luftwaffe rescue buoys
 

Now, now Franek and Adam - it's God here. Do I exist?

Cheers
God

Re: Luftwaffe rescue buoys
 

Hi Alex,

here is the British Rescue buoy.

From the wartime book "Briitain's Wonderful Air Force".

Regards,
Jan

Re: Luftwaffe rescue buoys
 

Happy new year to everyone!!!!!!!!!

In “Bulletin Air War”No.291 of the SGLO there is an article about the buoys by Antoon Meijers.
Officially called Rettungsboje Generalluftzeugmeister, but better known as Udet Boje. The British called them Lobster pots.
Frequently broke from there chains. Many washed up on the British coast.
Nothing is known about lives saved by these buoys.
The first buoy was delivered in autumn 1940 but by autumn 1941 they were scrapped at Cherbourg.
One featured in “One of our aircraft is missing” 1942.

Hope this is useful to someone?

Dennis

Re: Luftwaffe rescue buoys
 

I am afraid Brian that this is opinion of your wife or lover only. And the existence of God was proven in a scientific thesis of Freiburg University's professor.:D

Re: Luftwaffe rescue buoys
 

Hi Franek

I didn't mean to imply that I was God! God forbid! Anyway, who told you about my lover - for heaven's sake don't tell the wife!

Have a good 2008 - I look forward to reading your opinions!

Cheers
Brian

Re: Luftwaffe rescue buoys
 

I can confirm that there was a bouy in use off Berck, just up the coast from Cherbourg, in October 1942.

Who was responsible for the German bouys?


Bruce

Re: Luftwaffe rescue buoys
 

On 24. September 1940 the Generalstab Gen.Qu. 2.Abteilung, ordered the formation of three Seenotbojenkommandos with immediate effect. Seenotbojenkommando A in Cherbourg, the B-Kommando in Boulogne and the C-Kommando in Calais. The strength for each Kommando was 1 officer, 1 Feldwebel, 1 Unteroffizier and 10 enlisted men. The formation was to take place in Seefl.H.Kdtr. Wilhelmshaven for the A and B Kommandos, and in Fl.H.Kdtr. Stettin for the C Kommando. After completion of their formations, each Kommando was to transfer immediately to their respective locations in France. The A Kommando was then subordinated to Seenotzentrale (Luft) Cherbourg, the B and C Kommandos to the Seenotzentrale (Luft) Boulogne. The commanding officers were Major von Bredow for the A Kommando, Major Bruhn for the B Kommando, while the officer for the C Kommando was to be appointed later. To place the Seenotbojen in their locations at sea, two ships were reqired, the "Wik" from the Kriegsmarine and "Krischan" from the Luftwaffe.

On 5. May 1941 He 60D (W.Nr. 1515, St.kz. SD+WP) was shot down by a Spitfire while carrying out inspections of the Seenotbojen in the Seine estuary. The plane, belonging to 2. Staffel/Seenotgruppe Cherbourg, was a total loss. The pilot, Obfw. Paul Stockinger, was killed, while the observer, Oblt.z.See Hans Hilbirg, was injured.

Re: Luftwaffe rescue buoys
 

Hei to all,

Last week, after a sever storm the remains of a rescue bouy reemerged at the beach of Terschelling, Netherlands. This bouy stranded the 17th of November 1940. It was never salvaged but much steel was removed during the fifties.
Attached a photo of the remains. The quality is not to good, you can also see some of the adds at the other side of the page.

Regards,

Mathieu.

Re: Luftwaffe rescue buoys
 

I believe there is one on display at the Scottish Shipbuilding Museum at Irving. If that is not what I am remembering, please put my memories right!

Re: Luftwaffe rescue buoys
 

Crossing fingers it will be preserved this time!
BTW
You can avoid effect of translucency by putting a sheet of black paper behind the scanned picture.