Franz Steiger meets Charlie Brown 379th
 

[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']Greetings Peglar

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[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']A most unusual story. [/font]
[FONT='Arial','sans-serif'][/font][FONT='Arial','sans-serif']Charlie Brown was a B-17 Flying Fortress pilot with the 379th Bomber Group at Kimbolton, England . His B-17 was called 'Ye Old Pub' and was in a terrible state, having been hit by flak and fighters. The compass was damaged and they were flying deeper over enemy territory instead of heading home to Kimbolton.

After flying over an enemy airfield, a German pilot named Franz Steigler was ordered to take off and shoot down the B-17. When he got near the B-17, he could not believe his eyes. In his words, he 'had never seen a plane in such a bad state'. The tail and rear section was severely damaged, and the tail gunner wounded. The top gunner was all over the top of the fuselage. The nose was smashed and there were holes everywhere .

Despite having ammunition, Franz flew to the side of the B-17 and looked at Charlie Brown, the pilot. Brown was scared and struggling to control his damaged and blood-stained plane. Aware that they had no idea where they were going, Franz waved at Charlie to turn 180 degrees. Franz escorted and guided the stricken plane to and slightly over the North Sea towards England He then saluted Charlie Brown and turned away, back to Europe.

When Franz landed he told the C/O that the plane had been shot down over the sea, and never told the truth to anybody. Charlie Brown and the remains of his crew told all at their briefing, but were ordered never to talk about it.

More than 40 years later, Charlie Brown wanted to find the Luftwaffe pilot who saved the crew. After years of research, Franz was found. He had never talked about the incident, not even at post-war reunions. They met in the USA at a 379th. Bomber Group reunion, together with 25 people who are alive now - all because Franz never fired his guns that day.[/font]
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Re: Franz Steiger meets Charlie Brown 379th
 

Peglar -
Correction -
The B - 17 was on a Heading for England when it passed over
the LW Base. Franz Steiglar took off and caught up to them.
Mike

Re: Franz Steiger meets Charlie Brown 379th
 

The B-17 landed at Seething in Norfolk, home of the 448BG (B-24s). I am not aware of any pictures of the shot-up B-17 in existance.

BC

Re: Franz Steiger meets Charlie Brown 379th
 

This incident has come up before. The Luftwaffe pilot was Oberleutnant Franz Stigler of JG 27, a family friend since he flew with my uncle in Africa in 1942. I have had dinner with Franz and Charlie Brown in the past, and there is some controversy in certain circles as to the veracity of this whole story. Keep in mind that Stigler was a member of the schwarm which included Erwin Sawallisch and which was accused of faking claims in Africa. I believe this led to the unexplained death of Sawallisch. Also, considering that shooting down viermots at this stage of the war was considered a duty and honor in light of the death toll of German civilians, it doesn't seem likely that a Jagdwaffe pilot would willingly let his victim go, especially since consequences for doing so could be negative. I'm not saying that chivalrous acts did not occur, but the participants in this alleged incident have gotten alot of "mileage" out of it.

Re: Franz Steiger meets Charlie Brown 379th
 

In all the info I've seen on Franz jumps from Africa to JV-44 in 1945. When did he return to Germany and what units did he fly with? I noted the insignia of the 109 in the painting shows IIJG27. Had they returned from Italy by this time in 1943? I recall reading in Fighters Over The Desert regarding the faked claims recalling there was a eyewhitness from another unit (?). What happended to Erwin Sawallisch ?? I've had my doubts about this painting. For years Franz and Kelly Gross talked about doing a book where they traced their paths until they crssed over for a big dogfight but that never came to be and Kelly recently completed his own book. Is the painting and episode a result of the origial idea for the book that never came to be???

Re: Franz Steiger meets Charlie Brown 379th
 

From what I've heard, Sawallisch committed suicide by flying into the ground. I have a copy of the painting, and I'm not sure about the veracity of the details. Franz flew in the Reichsverteidigung with JG 27 as Kapitaen of 12. Staffel, and there is no doubting his bravery in this period. He still has a hole in his forehead from a .50 slug from when he was attacking a Viermot. He was also awarded the DKiG during this period. Apparently he did not fly any combat with JV 44.

Re: Franz Steiger meets Charlie Brown 379th
 

Vince, is that the painting you mean? An American friend wrote me to this: Charlie Brown lived in Seattle and Franz had moved to Vancouver after the war. When they finally met, they discovered they had lived 200 miles apart for the past 50 years.
Best regards, Horst

Re: Franz Steiger meets Charlie Brown 379th
 

Hi Horst,

No, the painting I'm thinking of is much more primitive, and shows the B-17 in side view. The one you've shown is really quite nice. Anyway, Franz is a real gentleman, and the last surviving German veteran from our Stammtisch Vancouver, which was founded under the auspices of the Gemeinschaft der Jagdflieger many years ago.

Re: Franz Steiger meets Charlie Brown 379th
 

Is it know for sure actually now many he downed in Africa? Also the same for Europe or Russia?
"Reichsverteidigung" forgive my ignorance for my knowledge of the German language consists of being able to count to ten!

Re: Franz Steiger meets Charlie Brown 379th
 

Hi Guys

Perhaps a bit of trivia regarding Franz, but was is his real last name?
Some articles on the net call him either Stigler (and so does an old issue of the American magazine Wings)or Stiegler. Jochen Prien says his last name was Stiegler as well. In the various previous texts you manage to call him Steiger, Steigler,Steiglar and Stigler. Perhaps it is time we unit and call him under his REAL last name?:)

Cheers
Stig

Re: Franz Steiger meets Charlie Brown 379th
 

His real name is STIGLER.

Re: Franz Steiger meets Charlie Brown 379th
 

Thanks Vince

Stig

Re: Franz Steiger meets Charlie Brown 379th
 

His full name would Ludwig Franz Stigler...correct?

Re: Franz Steiger meets Charlie Brown 379th
 

STIGLER

or

STIEGLER?

German sources tend to write the name the 2nd way, angloamerican sources choose the first - which one is correct?

Regards

Roland

Re: Franz Steiger meets Charlie Brown 379th
 

There is a little story of Franz Stigler posted on ctv.ca - a highly unusal piece of news to make it as a 'top story' on a Canadian news site (also note that he is not labelled as 'nazi pilot'):

WW2 German fighter pilot saved U.S. bomber crew
http://news.sympatico.msn.ctv.ca/abc...stigler_080511

Re: Franz Steiger meets Charlie Brown 379th
 

makes a change.lol

The heart-warming story... may be just a "war story"?
 

As some in this thread wondered about other details, here are some notes I put together. “de mortius nil nisi bonum” and all that sort of thing, but...

Stigler was a member of the 4./JG 27 in North Africa at the time of its hushed-up false-claiming scandal. During the summer of 1942, following the retreat of the British Army to the El Alamein line, R.A.F. activity dropped off to nearly zero. YET, on almost every mission, the "Expert Schwarm" (composed of Vogel, Sawallisch, Bendert and Stigler) of the 4./JG 27 returned with claims for multiple kills. (Stigler’s 2. – 16. aerial victories were claimed between 26.June – 16.August 1942, and ten of these in a ten-day period of 6. – 16.August.)

Other pilots marvelled at their success, but non – 4./JG 27 personnel with a lot of experience, such as Stahlschmidt, Boerngen and Sinner all doubted the claims being made. One day, however, a very experienced pilot of the 2./JG 27 ("Fifi" Stahlschmidt, who later, at the time of his death, was the German pilot with the MOST combat flights in theatre) landed to report that he'd witnessed this flight of four Messerschmitts repeatedly diving toward empty sand dunes and firing their guns -- at nothing.

These four (including Stigler) submitted more claims for this flight. The Gruppenkommandeur, Gustav Roedel, grilled these fliers, and this 'team' was broken up. The highest claimant, Erwin Sawallisch, disappeared over the sea on a "test flight" not long afterward, and his body was washed ashore later. Another, Karl-Heinz Bendert was eventually awarded the Ritterkreuz! Stigler continued flying to the end of the war -- which for a German fighter plot was no mean feat in itself. Ordinarily, this sort of thing would have been the subject of a court martial, but JG 27 was already under-strength, and then came the British offensive in October, with the retreat across Libya and withdrawal to Sicily, and eventually north to Austria to serve in the Reichsverteidigung (home defense).

I'll be curious to read what Shores may have to say regarding this incident when he releases his re-worked History of the Mediterranean Air War, Vol. 2, but we're still awaiting Vol.1

I'm sure that this B-17 incident has been embellished in the retelling, something along the lines of, "The fish that gets away always looks big."

20.December 1943 – the German defense claimed 45 aircraft shot down; the 8th Air Force admitted 27 four-engined and 6 fighter losses.

Only one B-17 was claimed by the II/JG 27 on this date, Lt. Eberhard Schade of 5./JG 27 for his 3rd victory.

“Ye Olde Pub” of 527th Bomb Squadron, 379th Bomb Group, 8th Air Force, was serial #23167, coded FO*S. Group marking was a ‘K’ in a triangle (the triangle represented the First Bomb Division of the 8th). On 20.December it made it back to England, but landed at Seething Airfield (not its home base), then was transferred to the 2nd Strategic Air Depot on 22.December for repairs, returned to its Group on 2.March 1944

Stigler’s claims at this time include his 21. (HSS) and 22. on 29. November 1943, but his 23. & 24. came on 19.March 1944 (i.e., NONE in December 1943 – Feb. 1944 period).

After his 22nd claim, Stigler flew with the IV/JG 27, leading 12./JG 27.
As mentioned above, his 23. & 24. came on 19.March 1944, his 25. on 3.April and his 26. on 24.April. He was then transferred to 8./JG 27, which was renumbered 11./JG 27. His 27th (a Spitfire) was claimed on 16.August 1944, 2 km NW of Orphin, France.

He was transferred to the EJG 1 (a training unit) after 27.October 1944

GRM

Re: Franz Steiger meets Charlie Brown 379th
 

Thanks for your learned response to the Stigler story. As a matter of fact, my uncle, Major Dr. Albrecht Ochs, was 'Abschuss-Offizier', or officer responsible for processing claims, at this time with JG27. I never spoke with Franz about the controversy, and what part my uncle might have played in it, but I do know that if my uncle smelled faking claims, there would have been trouble. As for the Charlie Brown story, both Stigler and Brown garnered a lot of publicity, both in the local and international media, over it, to the extent that the French government even awarded Stigler a high decoration.