Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

French newspaper (Daily) Le Monde published one hour ago this news : !Former Luftwaffe pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 !

http://www.lemonde.fr/web/depeches/0...17@7-54,0.html

can we confirm please ?
Philippe

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

There is an article today in the local Newspaper "La Provence" published in Marseilles.

Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupery Lightning near Marseilles, He was at Jgr. 200 based in Aix Les Milles Airport.

A book on this story (St Exupery 's missing in action) will be published in France on march 20th by Jacques Pradel et Luc Vanrell "St Exupery, l'ultime secret, enquête sur une disparition"

Friendly

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

Though a great man, he was not a saint. Please write Saint-Ex for short.

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

I'm sceptical about this. I did some research research into it years ago when somebody contacted me from France, when I was working on Operation Dragoon, but I couldn't come up with any evidence that Jagdgruppe 200 was involved in St. Exupéry's disappearance.

Rippert's claim is not in the surviving lists, although one of his from a week before 31 July is and another JG 200 pilot's claim is recorded for 30 July. Claims by the Gruppe from August 1944 were recorded however.

The relevant ULTRA decrypt is XL 4317 on file DEFE3/65 (Fliegerdivision 2 operations for 31 July 1944. I would need to search for my copy of it but from memory there was no indication of any success by JG 200 that day.
Nor did I find anything in No. 276 Wing's Signals Intelligence logs (intercepted W/T traffic) although other JG 200 combats do feature there.

There are further research possibilities in files released more recently but I have not had a chance to check these out yet.

Of course because there is nothing in the records, that does not make it impossible but deciphered daily operations reports from Fl.Div. 2 seem to be present throughout the Summer of 1944.

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

On YouTube there is a 10 minute film called ''Der letzte Flug'' which seems to refer to this incident. My German is not good enough to follow whether this is supposed to be a factual reconstruction anyone else seen it ?

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

Philippe Castellano, the man who dug up Saint-Ex's wreck, posted on a French board that when the German HQ learned whom Rippert had shot down, they concealed the whole thing and destroyed the claim files.
That sounds strange to me.
How did they learn it was Saint-Ex and when?

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

And it sounds like a bunch of crap to me! The lack of evidence is not proof that the records were destroyed.

Here's the promised text of ULTRA XL 4317:

XL 4317

Fliegerdivision 2 total effort on 31st was 12 sorties including two Ju 88 security ASV [FuG 200] recce, three Ju 88 and one Ju 188 convoy recce, two Arado A/S patrol. Four Arado security recce. No losses.

Details:

One Ju 88 from 21.24 to 01.36 hours [GMT] Minorca, due east to Sardinia offshore to northwest tip.

One Ju 88 from 21.50 to 00.42 hours Marseilles - 4212/0615 east - off northwest Corsican coast - 4252/0615 east - Marseille.

One Ju 88 from 22.53 to 00.37 hours broken off at Spanish frontier at 23.55 hours.

One Ju 88 from 23.02 to 23.47 hours (on 30th) broken off in 4252/0415 east at 23.10 hours.

One Ju 188 up 10.21 hours convoy route African coast.

Two Arado 12.00 to 14.50 hours search recce to spanish frontier.

Two Arado up 16.46, down 17.15 hours, security recce Gulf of Lions to frontier broken off at 17.00 hours in 4252/0515 east.

Two Arado up 17.34, down 19.37 hours, security recce Gulf of Lions to frontier carried out.

One Ju 88 up 21.40 hours ASV area west and northwest of Corsica.

Secondly on 30th an experimental flight for fighters was carried out to North African coast (comment no details but XL 4202 para. C may be relevant).

011802Z/8/44

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

I am also sceptical.

This looks like announcement of discovery of holy family´s tomb. There were two or three such discoveries in last 30 years if I am not mistaken ...

I was doing some research on 31.7.44 recently. And some time ago I was in touch with Rippert, but not about this topic.

Since 70´s there is another candidate for killing of Saint-Ex. After extensive research, that person is realistic in time and place, but engagement on July 31 is otherwise more likely legend.

If Nick Beale could make overview of Jafü Süd operations of 31.7.1944, it would be great. I would be not surprised if there was simply no engagement.

BTW I also found The Last Flight movie some time ago. IMHO it is very good fiction movie.
Here with English subtitles:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WKK1RQoewM

Behind camera was Alex Thomson, an expert in his field.

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

Due to Nick´s post, most of my previous post is overcomed :)

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

My wife was just watching "Le Journal" on the French channel TV 5 and there appeared a story about divers recovering artifacts from Saint Exupery's Lightning from the bottom of the Med off Marseille. Then there was a telephone interview with Horst Rippert recounting his downing of Saint Exupery. Rippert was speaking in German and there was a translater speaking over him in French, so it was difficult for me to follow the details. Apparently Rippert is still alive so perhaps some Luftwaffe expert such as Dr. Prien could get to the bottom of this. Persanally I found it fascinating that such a revelation would appear so long after the fact and apparently out of the blue, so to speak.

Tom

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

Hi,

Personally I found it fascinating that such a revelation arrives just before publication of a book about the subject ... Authors are Luc Vanrell (french diver who discovered the wreck of St Ex's P38, no problem with him, he seems to be a serious diver and passionate searcher but 2nd author is a well-known french journalist who made several historical errors before (he was sure he found a video of Rosswell E.T. ..., he believed the story of woman with wolves ... So off course he's a journalist ... Not a searcher.

Stef

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

Unfortunately I can´t read French, but I found this German news: http://www.morgenpost.de/desk/1804368.html

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

This is getting stranger and stranger; Horst Rippert is the brother of the famous German singer Ivan Rebroff (who died a few weeks ago), the Morgenpost reports.

My impression is that this is just a publicity stunt.

Regards,

Bart

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

Nick, what does XL 4202 para. C say?

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

No idea, I haven't read that particular file except with reference to operations in Italy.

If anyone wants to check it out, it's on file DEFE3/64 which contains material decypted from 29-31 July 1944. The time needed to decipher the message makes it unlikely that XL 4202 reports on something that happened on 31 July. It may contain an intention for that day's flying though.

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

When the Lightning of Saint-Ex was found, were there any indication of battle damage?

Regards,

Bart

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

Thanks Nick.

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

Hello.
Sorry to ask a dumb question for this first post but I'm not accustomed with this kind of thing, this Saint-Ex story just amaze me and make me curious...
So are those records you are mentioning are available to public? Are they online?

Thanks and good luck for your research!

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

The feeling of Nick seems pretty good, notices like that concealed for 60 years popping-up at the moment when noboby could argue against...I read the article in the Figaro, there is a picture of Rippert, saying that has half jewish they retain him from front-duty, quite to say that if he was sent in the battle earlier, he will hv win the war, he claims many victories, nd was to hv been decorated of the Ritterkreuz by Hermann himself, + many extraordinary things, concerning his brother Rebroff, who was Ukrainian, as lwf-specialist I am not very pro. but singing is quite my job, nd I hv to say that Rebroff was not a very good singer, nd pretend that he was able to sing 4 octaves....

rémi

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

Rippert? Ritterkreuztrager??

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

No, do not worry. He had "only" German Cross in Gold.

By thw way the "true" story with Saint-Ex. is rolling over Czech media today. Oh my God, it is like flood.

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

I've just read that pieces of Saint-Ex.'s plane are since 2004 on exhibition in the Musée de l’Air et de l’Espace in Le Bourget. Has anyone been there? Have they bullet holes?

Regards,

Bart

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

Here is a german movie about the kill:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WKK1RQoewM

It all seems like a media offensive for some reason or the other... incl. a nice movie :)

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

It's all available to the public but only on paper and microfilm, at the UK National Archives. Anyone can visit, you just need some i/d (like a passport) to register as a reader and be issued with a ticket.

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

Some additional information that may be of interest....

Here is an article from 2004 where Luc Vanrell, the diver who found Saint-Ex's wreck believes that he committed suicide. According to the article, Saint-Ex suffered from depression, his plane was far of it's planned route and the wreck shows evidence of a vertical crash. http://www.cdnn.info/industry/i040807/i040807.html

The following is taken from Wikipedia about Saint Ex:
"In 2000, a diver named Luc Vanrell found a Lockheed P-38 Lightning crashed in the seabed off the coast of Marseille. Extraction followed in October of 2003. On April 7, 2004, investigators from the French Underwater Archaeological Department confirmed that the plane was, indeed, Saint Exupéry's. The wreckage showed traces of neither shooting nor aerial combat. In June, 2004, fragments were given in June 2004 to the Museum of Air and Space in Le Bourget, France."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine_de_Saint-Exupéry

-Eric Zemper

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

Whilst the Rippert story is suspect, so too must be the "suicide" theory. It is based on the flimsiest of circumstantial evidence and even if the wreck went in vertically and Saint-Ex was depressed it hardly points towards suicide. Even although there apparently must be some doubt about the Rippert fighter claim I am afraid that failure to find "...traces of neither shooting nor aerial combat" in the wreckage cannot be given much credence, either. The wreckage was fragmented, corroded and incomplete. I have been involved in recovery of many many wrecks, the metal in far better condition, and where we KNOW combat has been the cause but have rarely found evidence that can be attributed to ordnance strikes. It seems we are dealing with a great deal of fantasy and very little fact.

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

Nothing of the nonsense written in the international press (the usual "Nazi pilot" sensational stories etc.) especially the obvious crap written in the otherwise good informed French "Figaro" appears in the German press of today. In his younger days Horst Rippert has been a reasonable and reliable sport´s jounalist working for the German TV channel ZDF, being one of the first reporters being employed when the channel started to work in the 60s. I hope he has not lost his credibility and his wits due to his high age...

Anyway, I understand the story as follows: German TV journalists from the otherwise very reliable public channel "ZDF" were researching for a known German historical documentary series "Tauchfahrt in die Vergangenheit" about archeological sites on the sea bottom like any kind of ship wrecks.
As one of the topics Saint-Exupery´s Lockheed F-5 reconaissance wreck was chosen. To spread some light on the puzzle they researched the adresses of former JGr 200 pilots being still alive and having been stationed in Southern France during the crucial time in 1944.

Horst Reinert´s name appeared on this list so they contacted their former colleague. When the journalists started to interview Reinert about his opinions about Saint-Exupery´s death (the story of his brother Hans-Rolf aka "Ivan Rebroff" has nothing to do with WW2, here the "Figaro" is writing utter nonsense), he said: "You can refrain from further search - it was me..."

I´m still sceptical because of his 64-year-long silence but ZDF announces a TV report with the final proofs. So let´s see...

Regards

Fran

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

I know it's less dramatic but why are they so keen that a missing aircraft must have been shot down? My impression of flying at that time is that it was quite dangerous enough, without anyone shooting at you.

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

I suppose, Nick, that to "produce" an explanation as to Saint-Ex's loss, put a name to the supposed victor AND to have said victor still alive might help put a little gloss on things for the publicity people and attract a media circus. The plan seems to be working well so far!! I cannot imagine how many books it has already sold. On the other hand, Saint-Ex's wreckage found, no explanation, possible suicide etc etc would not have grabbed world headlines. The "New York Times" has screamed a headline "I WAS NAZI PILOT WHO KILLED SAINT-EXUPERY". I kind of doubt that the story: "Saint-Ex may have committed suicide" would have made even two lines on the back page of "L'Etoille de Marseille", or whatever the local rag is!

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

L'étoile de Marseille ?, sorry to make you disappointed, but this newspaper exist nomore, if it had existed, in Marseille there is unique Newspaper called La Provence, saying the good "parole", no other music sound there, so no DOUBT THAT THIS STORY HV BEEN FABRICATED nd relayed by every good looking media, like ZDF..

rémi

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

Just one question nobody has been able to answer so far: where is Rippert's log-book and what story does it tell?

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

As RolandF says....lets see! Maybe they have the proof after all. Bring on the evidence,ZDF!

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

I am going to ask Mr. Rippert if he can support me with comments about July 30. His colleague Fw. Guth claimed a P-38 or B-17 :)

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

Or they could just get hold of a copy of Luftwaffen-Revue issue 1/93 (March 1993) and read the article «Träume und Wirklichkeit: Das Ende von Antoine de Saint-Exupéry» by Georg Pemmler. (title = Dreams and Reality: the end of Antoine de Saint-Exupéry)

Pemler (correct spelling) was an officer in 2./NAG 13 in Southern France in the Summer of 1944 and wrote his own memoir Route National Nr. 7.

Pemler recounts the enquiries that were made in his own unit and with JG 200 and Flak outfits when an Allied message was heard, in clear, over the emergency frequency alerting people to watch for a missing P-38 and naming the pilot. (Pemler knew the name having read some of his books). There were sighting reports from German ground echelons of a high-flying recon plane but nobody made any claim of shooting it down.

The French media could check out back numbers of Le Fana de l'Aviation (my xerox of the article doesn't have an issue number/date) for an article by Thierry Thomassin "Le P-38 de Saint Exupéry n'est probablement pas là où on le cheche." ( = Saint-Exupéry's P-38 is probably not where people are looking for it).

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

Thanks again for you enlightenments Mr Beal!

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

Here's another bizare twist on the Saint Exupery story. I just found this quote from a caption in Osprey's "French Aces of World War 2" by Barry Ketley:

"Cleared to fly another five missions, Saint Exupery successfully completed eight from Bastia before being shot down into the sea by two pre-production Fw 190D-9s on 31 July 1944 off St Raphael." (!?!)

This seems even more incredible than Rippert's claim.

Tom

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

That was the Heichele's theory that was turned down years ago.

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

Even if he turns bad in his old years, but maybe the newsscrappers are also a bit faulty, he managed to shot down an impressive bunch of 4 mot, using the poor planes of Jgr.200 he scored also in the last months at a moment of using a Bf109, was rather not a life insurance, looks to hv been among the 10 or 20 better shooters of the Lwf, for that period

Rémi

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

That's the BIG Question ! Where is the Rippert's log book ? A pilot never part with his log book..On the log book, we will be able to find what he was doing on the 31st of July 1944. If it is said to be lost, we can consider the whole thing to be just dirty trick.

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

gaynako, Hartmann has he last log book missing.