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We need help in an identification of the pilot.
The fragments of the fighter Bf-109 were found. We want to send the remains to the home place of the pilot.
Necessary information of the plane: Number №44589 September - October 1943 is the prospective time of accident. Place of the accident: village Borodaevskoe. We have one personal thing of this pilot. This is Iron cross the 1 rang, but at the present time it’s on restoration. And also we have a photo of the engine of the plane. Request to assist in an identification of the person of the pilot. HELP! |
Re: We need help in an identification of the pilot.
Are you sure about this number? There are no airframe WNrs in that range. This sounds like a part number.
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Re: We need help in an identification of the pilot.
2 Attachment(s)
Number guns pilot
Fromer M37 - №44589 ... Foto... |
Re: We need help in an identification of the pilot.
Am a bit puzzled trying to unravel the facts in your post.
Can you clarify where the number was found, and can you post a picture of the number? The data plate shows it to be a DB605 A-1 engine, so we a have a Messerschmitt 109 G apparently, but I cannot unravel the other details you have posted. Maybe Chris Goss has something.....? |
Re: We need help in an identification of the pilot.
The number 44589 could perhaps be an internal Erla Werknummer.
@ Adolf: can you confirm the crashsite is Lake Borodaevskoe, around 110km NW of Vologda? regards, Tomislav |
Re: We need help in an identification of the pilot.
Would Lake Borodaevskoe include the possibility of a Finnish Bf 109?
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Re: We need help in an identification of the pilot.
4 Attachment(s)
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Re: We need help in an identification of the pilot.
Next foto...
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Re: We need help in an identification of the pilot.
I'm sure, that this number of personal weapon pilot.
Place of the accident: village Borodaevskoe. (Kursk - Kharkov area) |
Re: We need help in an identification of the pilot.
5 Attachment(s)
EK 1...
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Re: We need help in an identification of the pilot.
Have you find any other personal belongings of the pilot?
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Re: We need help in an identification of the pilot.
Hi Adolf,
Do any of these locations from the Luftwaffe Loss Returns tie to the crash location of the 109 - East of Noverossijsk, Northwest of Charkow, Charkow-Bogeduchew and Bagajewskaja, Regards Brian Bines |
Re: We need help in an identification of the pilot.
Has someone located this village Borodaevskoe in the Kursk/Kharkov region? It would be a great help if someone could pinpoint the location in reference to a bigger place or city. Than the location could be easily correlated with the LW Planquadrat system.
The pilot is probably still MIA. |
Re: We need help in an identification of the pilot.
Earlier village had other name, the information on it is now specified. The plane has been found on depth of 7 metres, a corner of its falling of 90 degrees. The award of the pilot on restorations, its number it will be soon known. Which I have written number, it is hand arm number, it too on restoration. As soon as I will specify the village or city name near to it, at once I will answer.
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Re: We need help in an identification of the pilot.
Hi.
Have tried to make a set of search parameters for this, please tell me if I am right/wrong: Bf 109 Pilot listed as MIA Timespan 01.09.1943 - 31.10.1943 Luftflotte 4 or Luftflotte 6 area Remember that for a lot of the MIA pilots there is no given location (just listed as 'Unbekannt' if you do not have the NVM For the given period there are 19 pilots listed as missing flying a Bf 109 in the Luftflotte 4 area, and only two commanded by Luftflotte 6. Regards, Andreas B |
Re: We need help in an identification of the pilot.
The other problem is that the German wartime spelling of place names is different to the current spellings on Google-Earth.
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Re: We need help in an identification of the pilot.
And it is possible to show this this list?
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Re: We need help in an identification of the pilot.
Hello all,
The engine Werknummer shown in intriguing. The vast majority of DB 605 A-1 WNrn. I have documented are either five digits, or a three-digit prefix (002, 004, 007, 011, or 019) followed by a four, five or six-digit number. In many cases, the three-digit “prefix” number appears to indicate the manufacturer. Your number, 700/044, is exciting because it doesn’t fit into any known blocks. I note that the engine ID tag says “MERCEDES-BENZ.” Did you find a three-letter Hersteller code or manufacturer’s name anywhere on the engine? Steve Sheflin |
Re: We need help in an identification of the pilot.
Hi Steve,
I have also a few DB605 6-digit WNrs. without producer 3-digit prefixes. They are in the 100xxx, 201xxx, 205xxx and 210xxx range. |
Re: We need help in an identification of the pilot.
Here the exact information in a falling place: Ukraine, the Dnepropetrovsk area, village Borodaevsky farm. Werknummer has not been found.
... What JG drew duty in this zone in October-September, 1943 to what this pilot could belong? |
Re: We need help in an identification of the pilot.
If I had to wager a guess III./JG 52 sounds like a probable candidate. Perhaps even I./JG 52.
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Re: We need help in an identification of the pilot.
On 11th Sept Uffz Alex ?erie (possibly Gerie) of 13/JG52 was reported missing east of Noverossisk in Bf109G-4 14938 yellow 2 , I think this location is too far south though. On the 9th Sept Fw. Anton Matusek in G-4 19347 yellow 9 and Uffz Ludwig Durodsky in G-4 yellow 13 both of 13/JG52 were reported missing location unknown. As another possibility ,but I do not know how close the location is, on the 30th Sept Oblt Emil Konrad in Bf 109G-6 of I/NAG2 19715 was reported missing following engine trouble in the area of Bol-Tokmak. I guess if an aircraft werknummer turns up this matter will be quickly resolved.
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Re: We need help in an identification of the pilot.
Hello Brian,
You can safely rule out all mentioned 13./JG 52 Messerschmitts. All above Slovak pilots have defected to the Soviet side (rtk. Anton Matúšek in Bf 109G-4 WNr. 19347, gelbe 9, and čtk. Ludovít Dobrovodský in Bf 109G-4 WNr. 16259, gelbe 13, on 9 September 1943 and čtk. Alexander Gerič in Bf 109G-4 WNr. 14938, gelbe 2, on 11 September 1943) and have "delivered" their aircraft to Russians intact. Matúšek and Dobrovodský have landed on a field near Novomalorossiyskaya while Gerič has landed on Timashevskaya airfield. Ota |
Re: We need help in an identification of the pilot.
Hi, Ota
Thanks for the information with regards to the Slovak pilots. I am going to update accordingly. Regards, Andreas B |
Re: We need help in an identification of the pilot.
Hi.
Updated list: Luftflotte 4: http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=121349 http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=121237 http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=108327 http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=119810 http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=119850 http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=116442 http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=105209 http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=105210 http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=105622 http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=107879 http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=105611 http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=113248 http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=108614 http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=108616 http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=104869 http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=113129 Luftflotte 6: http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=121370 http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=113169 Regards, Andreas B |
Re: We need help in an identification of the pilot.
Hello Ota,
Thanks for the information like Andreas this is not my field , but identifying any missing airmen who has served their country always interests me, Regards Brian |
Re: We need help in an identification of the pilot.
Hey,
in my Documents i find WNR 16259 in http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...ighlight=16259 to other accident. Can I help you with this link ? |
Re: We need help in an identification of the pilot.
Hi
Yes, I also have this record, and it is not the only aircraft that seemingly has been lost as a total loss repeatedly. However, in this case I would suspect an erronous report by JG 52, and that the real WNr is 19259 or 19256. Has anyone got the NVM for this loss? Regards, Andreas B |
Re: We need help in an identification of the pilot.
Quote:
@ Andreas Here are my loss detail on the Wnrs. mentioned by you in the previous posts. I hope it will add some information to your database. Bf 109G-6 WNr.15872 01.09.43 2./JG52 Fw. Helmut Kabisch (verm.), Luftkampf mit Il-2 - Absturz, Pl.Qu.8818 (10km SÖ Mospino) - 100% sw.15+ Bf 109G-6 WNr.15903 05.09.43 6./JG52 Oblt. Heinz Schmidt (Stkp) (verm.), Luftkampf mit Il-2 - Absturz, Kotelwa-Senkow (Pl.Qu. 41734) - 100% ge.7+− Bf 109G-6 WNr.19881 14.09.43 Stab/JG52 Fw. Gerhard Willmanns (verm.), Luftkampf mit 2 LaGG, SW Turkenowka - 100% ws.10+ Bf 109G-6 WNr.15972 14.09.43 1./NAGr.2 Oblt. Werner Lüchau (verm.), Luftkampf, Pl.Qu.3155 - 100% ws.2+ Bf 109G-6 WNr.15860 25.09.43 3./JG52 Uffz. Johann Sommer (verm.) (†), Luftkampf mit 4 Jägern, 3km Blagoweschtschenskoje - 100% ge.14+ Bf 109G-6 WNr.19715 30.09.43 1./NAGr.2 Oblt. Emil Konrad (verm.), Motorstörung, Bol.-Tokmak - 100% ws.2+ Bf 109G-4 WNr.19233 02.10.43 11./JG51 Uffz. Günter Nikolau (verm.), unbekannte Ursache, Raum Alexandria - 100% sw.3++ Bf 109G-4 WNr.16663 03.10.43 12./JG51 Lt. Gerd Hoffmann (verm.), Luftkampf, N Ssoloschino - 100% br.1++ Bf 109G-6 WNr.20400 07.10.43 6./JG52 Fw. Robert Schandlbauer (verm.), Luftkampf - Bauchlandung, Michoriw Rog (Pl.Qu.49321) - 100% ge.13+− Bf 109G-6 WNr.20658 08.10.43 3./JG52 Fw. Peter Schuhbauer (verm.), Luftkampf über See, N Taman (Pl.Qu.66622)- 100% ge.1+ Bf 109G-6 WNr.20758 08.10.43 7./JG52 Uffz. Heinz Martin (verm.) (†), Luftkampf mit Jäger, in die See N Kertsch - 100% sw.<1+~ Bf 109G-6 WNr.20666 12.10.43 1./JG52 Obgefr. Heinrich Denker (†), Luftkampf - Absturz, 30km Ö Nowo Saporoshje - 100% ws.8+ Bf 109G-6 WNr.15695 13.10.43 7./JG52 Uffz. Gottfried Wundke (verm.), Luftkampf, Nowo Saporoshje - 100% ws.2+~ Bf 109G-6 WNr.410016 13.10.43 9./JG52 Uffz. Karl-Otto Haack (verm.), Luftkampf, Nowo Saporoshje - 100% ge.12+~ Bf 109G-4 WNr.19971 15.10.43 6./JG52 Gefr. Jürgen Dinius (verm.) (†), Luftkampf, Pl.Qu.10111 - 100% ge.4+− Bf 109G-6 WNr.15835 27.10.43 1./NAGr.2 Uffz. Heinz Zähnel (†), unfreiwillige Bodenberührung - Absturz, N Sjewidschenko - 100% ws.8+ Bf 109G-6 WNr.15876 11.10.43 10./JG51 Uffz. Helmut Neu (verm.), Zusammenstoss in der Luft mit Bf109G-6 WNr.27 137, Pl.Qu.0632 (bei Newel) - 100% ws.5++ best regards, Tomislav |
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