Hurricane article in Scale Aviation Modeller
 

Hi,
Well I suppose that these questions are realy aimed towards Steve Modell Dad and Tony Kearns.

The article in Scale Aviation Modeller for May 2005 by Richard Caruana, which is entitled Export Hawker Hurricanes was of interest to me.

Part One

Within the item there is a colour profile of a IIb serial number BE225 of the Netherlands East Indies Air Force, the a/c is shown with the Orange inverted triangle outlined in black.

My question on this is -

Although Hurricanes are known to have been used by that Force, was the profile of the Hurricane depicted taken from photo's of the actual aircraft and if so where can I find such a photo or photo's? ( if available to you and if possible could you please scan a copy to me please ).

Part two

In the text there is a mention of Hurricane's used by other lesser known users.

Quote "small numbers were delivered to the Persian Air Force and the Iraqi Air Force (post-war, the latter including two-seat trainers)."

My question on this is -

Is Mr Caruana mixed up here with Hurricanes and Furies with regard to Iraqi use of Hurricanes, as Persia is well known to have used both single and two seat Hurricanes while Iraq did have the single and two seat Furies.

Did Iraq have Hurricanes ( I have never heard this before ) in its service and what is known of their serial numbers ? If so could you please give any known references

Both Steven and Tony are noted in the articles acknowledgments, hence their
mention in the first para.

Thanks in advance

Alex

Re: Hurricane article in Scale Aviation Modeller
 

I know I've see a pic of a Dutch Hurricane, but cannot seem to remember where. I have pix of them after capture by the Japanes, but none in Dutch markings.


As for the Iraqi Hurricanes, that is new to me also. The Persian AF ones are well documented. But Iraq?

I will look around for a Dutch picture.

Re: Hurricane article in Scale Aviation Modeller
 

The Dutch Hurricane can be found on one of the Dutch Decal sheets dedicated to the NEI, possibly this is where Richard Caruana obtained his information. I do not recall seeing a photo to justify this, but it is hardly unreasonable to assume that the Dutch source may well have.....

Given the production rate of RC and other professional artists, it is hardly surprising that they don't always get the research from the finest sources. However, it is something else to accuse him of pure invention. We are all guilty of, at times, favouring ideas that suit our earlier assumptions.

Re: Hurricane article in Scale Aviation Modeller
 

..perhaps not pure invention, but I read on another board that he was utilising a 40 year old issue of Scale Modelworld as a source for his Buffalo drawings...perhaps not a good idea, when the definitive work on this type was published only a few months ago..

Re: Hurricane article in Scale Aviation Modeller
 

Hi,


Thank you Steven and for your offer to search out photo.

Graham, thank you also i was unaware of the decal set.

Also falkeEins for you bit on Scale modelworld, i will have to look if I still have any .

Manny years ago i had made a modell of a Hurricane and the result was almost the same as the profile so I was not far off, my a/c had traces of old RAF colours under and above the wings though.

The Iraq bit is odd though, personnally I beleive he got mixed up with Iran, then again did Iran sell some on to iraq ??

night all and thanks

Alex

A

Re: Hurricane article in Scale Aviation Modeller
 

Given that the Buffaloes handed over directly (unit to unit) grew red/white/blue flags rather than the triangles, I do wonder a little about this scheme. However, some of the Hurricanes were handed over straight from the ferry, so these could have had the earlier markings. I don't know the date of the changeover.

Re: Hurricane article in Scale Aviation Modeller
 

Hello,

I have to say that I am really not qualified to comment on the Hurricanes other than the Irish Air Corps. Over the years I have seen many illustrations of former Irish Air Corps aircraft in different magazines. The depiction of Richard Caruana's Irish Hurricane 103 is the most accurate that I have ever come across. It follows his Lysander in an earlier edition which is equally good.
Regards to all
Tony Kearns

Re: Hurricane article in Scale Aviation Modeller
 

IIRC there is no photographic evidence available for Dutch Hurricanes, at least not ones showing their markings. Indeed I've seen (a number) of captured Hurricanes.

Looks like the Dutch crates saw little actions, since they missed radioes (and?). Caution proofed right, since on one radioless mission they were bounced (shortly after take off?) and decimated.

A couple of weeks ago I finished P.C. Boer's excellent history on the Air Ops over the NEI during the 1942 campaign. These Hurricanes were RAF issue, and given to the NEIAF, so there would be little chance of them getting the Dutch neutrality markings.

Could some of you attach a scan of said profile?

BTW still offering a copy of the first volume dealing with Borneo, including an introduction. http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=976

Re: Hurricane article in Scale Aviation Modeller
 

Ruy;

These are from the AJ Press book. I doubt much difference among profiles. The underside appears to be Sky. Fuselage roundels appear painted over.

http://home.earthlink.net/%7Emodelda...hHurriProf.jpg

Re: Hurricane article in Scale Aviation Modeller
 

Thank you Steven, for the profiles, BE225 is the one in the magazine I mentioned, but a/s has No Tropical chin intake and the camoflage is not the same looks slightly like a mirror image of the one shown here and the colours duller.

Perhaps some clever sole will post the profile here so it can be seen against yours seen above.

Alex

Re: Hurricane article in Scale Aviation Modeller
 

Attached the image as provided by Alex.

Re: Hurricane article in Scale Aviation Modeller
 

I'm not that clever, but I'd like to know what went wrong when you tried to upload the image.

As for the color analysis, I think you should not take the slight differences seriously, they are basically portraying the same colors but by different artists in different publications. Although most of the 1942 Far Eastern photos show a temporate looking scheme, some give a sense of having a (lighter) desert scheme.

Weren't a number of the Far East Hurris on their way to the desert or even delivered from North Africa? Note, I might be completely off here, working from vague memory.

Re: Hurricane article in Scale Aviation Modeller
 

Hello and Thank you Ruy,

Well , I thought I did it right, but as can be seen was wrong.
I'll try again on another thread sometime.

Thanks again.

The point's that I was making were one , that the camoflage patterns were different in the two profiles, and that for one a/c with serial number known I would have thought that at least the same pattern would be shown, even and odd serials had afaiaa one pattern on even numbers and a mirror of the pattern on the odd numberd a/c. This changed in later years of the war I beleive to one pattern only.
The second was about there being or not a chin intake , would have thought that research for the article would have brought to light wether or not this a/c BE225 had one or not.

I am in no way finding fault with the profiles or their artist , Overall i find the magazine very helpful andhas great colour profiles in each issue, but would have thought that these things would have been sorted out at the research stage before ink was on paper.

Thanks again

Alex

Re: Hurricane article in Scale Aviation Modeller
 

One thing that makes me believe Caruana is incorrect is the DG/DE patteren. Both the A and B patterns have the Dark Green (or Mid Stone, if replacing DG) going across the cockpit area. As shown, Caruana's BE225 represents a rarely used C scheme, and I belive that by the time these aircraft were produce, the C and D scheme were not used.

So either Caruana was working from a rare picture of a rare scheme, or else he winged it. My money is on the latter.

The AJ Press profiles use the correct A scheme. I could be wrong, but I belive by the time the BE series were produced, the A scheme became standard.

Re: Hurricane article in Scale Aviation Modeller
 

Hello Steven,


Winged it, yes thats my thoughts too. Saying that it's a very good article and I am pleased to have it.

Still waiting more info on the Iraq part though, Anyone ???


Alex

Re: Hurricane article in Scale Aviation Modeller
 

Hello Alex,
I have been in touch with Richard Caruana mainly to congratulate him on the Irish Hurricane.He replied by e mail and I part quote "There is not much doubt as to the Dutch Hurricanes, in fact I received some feedback from readers primarily pointing out that, contrary to what I said in the caption, they did not carry triangles over the wings. The reference to Iraq was a typo error of mine,which I regret,and was actually a reference to Iran "
Kind regard
Tony Kearns

Re: Hurricane article in Scale Aviation Modeller
 

Shame we don't have the full story on the Dutch Hurricanes. Did they have triangles at all? Fuselage only? Or did they have tri-colors ?

Re: Hurricane article in Scale Aviation Modeller
 

As a minor point, I would assume Sky Blue rather than Sky on overseas Hurricanes after 1940.

Re: Hurricane article in Scale Aviation Modeller
 

Hello Tony,


Thank you for the info and on Mr Caruana's comments re the triangle and also the typo error re Iraq.

NEI Hurricane's No triangles on wings, so perhaps over-painted RAF roundels or maybe the RAF roundels were left on.

Pitty, I was looking forward to hearing more on those Iraqi Hurricane's. I also had overlooked Iran had several of most types of Hurricane.

Thank you ALL for helping to clear up my questions.

Alex