Spitfire P9374 Article Aeroplane June 2008
 

Andy Saunders has written an article in this months Aeroplane (June 2008) on the loss of Spitfire P9374 on 24th May 1940, piloted by F/O P.F. Cazenove (73727) of 92 Sqn on Calais beach (PoW) and its subsequent re-discovery (1980) and recovery in 1981. There is a picture of the wreckage in 1940 which reveals the individual code to be either GR-J or GR-L (only the top of the last letter is shown, and from the photo it appears it may not have had the GR painted on it). The actual aircraft code is not mentioned in the article, does anyone (Andy?) know what it was?

Update: A quick google search indicates it is GR-J, but I was wondering why this is not mentioned as it is 'un-confirmed'


BTW very great article Andy, thanks for writing it!

Paul

Re: Spitfire P9374 Article Aeroplane June 2008
 

Can't offer any confirmation of the individual letter I'm afraid but No.92 Squadron codes were being changed from GR to QJ around that time which could explain their apparent absence on a partly re-coded aircraft ?

Re: Spitfire P9374 Article Aeroplane June 2008
 

Peter

Thanks for your input

Paul

Re: Spitfire P9374 Article Aeroplane June 2008
 

I have a photo of Roger Bushell's N3194 crash landed on the 23rd May
which clearly shows 92 sq code as GR-Z.

Not sure how P9374 can positively be identified from such wreckage though........


Mervyn.

Re: Spitfire P9374 Article Aeroplane June 2008
 

Mervyn,

The only photographs of BUSHELL's crash-landed N3194 that I am familiar with show it burned out after he reportedly set fire to it after landing. So if you have one showing it with the old GR codes I (for one) would be most grateful if you would post it for all to see. According to First Light by Geoffrey WELLUM (2002) the squadron codes were QJ by the time of Dunkirk so your photograph could confirm the transitional state of No.92 Squadron code letters at that time.

Re: Spitfire P9374 Article Aeroplane June 2008
 

Mervyn

I don't think there is any doubting the identity of the recovered wreckage as P9374. Ample evidence to confirm it; stencilled on gun feed chute, pencilled on a removable access panel and a perfect match of the engine number to that recorded on the AM Form 78. Case closed, I'd say!!

Re: Spitfire P9374 Article Aeroplane June 2008
 

Paul

Thanks for your kind comments! My belief is that the code letter is indeed "J". Certainly no squadron codes (GR or QJ) can be seen, and as Peter Cornwell points out it is reasonable to assume this is related to the transition from GR to QJ at this time. Lets hope that when P9374 rises from the ashes she will get the correct roundel and no squadron codes....but I wouldn't want to put money on it.

Andy

Re: Spitfire P9374 Article Aeroplane June 2008
 

Hi Andy,

Well done! That's another one out the way !
Having not viewed the wreckage I was completely unaware that. So much was gleaned from so little.
I better go buy the A/M as well !

I have a small photo purported to be P9374 taken at the time showing the a/c facing along the beach, definately below the high water line (tide is out) centre section completely burned out, a couple of Germans loitering in the background.
There are several houses in a group to the left, in the middle is what looks like a terminal building, to the right of that & nearer to the shore line is what looks like a two story 'pointed' (little like a ship) building, possible bunker? Then, on the right side of the photo is another two story house.
Should be enough to ID the location of this photo for sure.

A x check with any photos taken at recovery would be interesting......

I am rather reluctant to post photos as to many folks lift them now.

While on the topic on wreckage, have you been able to positively
identify the A/C of Douglas Bader yet? Your recovery in France shown on that TV documentary, most interesting !

Cheers, Mervyn.

Re: Spitfire P9374 Article Aeroplane June 2008
 

One more......

Another Spitfire beach photo, this one again with the usual center section burnt out, all three blades bent back, so the engine was probably dead at the landing
Aircraft is lying along the beach, camera shot is toward the sea so, no reference points.
Only the a/c letter B is clear.......any ideas please ?

Mervyn.

Re: Spitfire P9374 Article Aeroplane June 2008
 

Mervyn,

Sorry but with the best will in the world it is difficult to even hazard a guess at the identity of your photographs from a description alone. Incidentally I was wrong to say that BUSHELL set fire to his aircraft after his crash-landing on May 23, 1940. Having since checked his account he reported that the aircraft was already on fire when he put her down. Either way it burned out, so your photograph of GR*Z (N3194) was not taken that day & it may well have carried the new QJ codes.

Re: Spitfire P9374 Article Aeroplane June 2008
 

Hi Peter,

You've got me at it now !! Trying to pin down the 92 Sq change over!
Looking at another photo here, this one via Roy Motram, dated 27/4/40 photo shows N3265 GR-T wheels up after engine failure.

The usual sources then show it as; To AST 4/5/40

So, GR- was still in use by at least some a/c, circa beginning May ?

Mervyn.

Tiz at least 30 years ago since we last exchanged some photos !!

Re: Spitfire P9374 Article Aeroplane June 2008
 

As Peter Corwell says, its pretty impossble to identify from a description of a photo - however good the description! That said, your description of Spitfire "B" sounds very much like Al Deere's KL-B, Kiwi I. Quite a well known pic. But without seeing it........!

Andy

Re: Spitfire P9374 Article Aeroplane June 2008
 

Andy,

I am quite happy to mail you a copy if you wish ? (I hope we haven't hi-jacked the original post too much!!)

Mervyn.

Re: Spitfire P9374 Article Aeroplane June 2008
 

Hi,

To get back to back to GR-J.

Looks to me as if the GR has been painted over as the outline looks to me to be there - just.

Alex

Re: Spitfire P9374 Article Aeroplane June 2008
 

Alex

You've got me there! Try as I might, I cannot see what you can. Maybe its just me?

Re: Spitfire P9374 Article Aeroplane June 2008
 

Hi Andy,
Is it this one ?

I reversed the colours

Thus


As Ed West usualy says,

Usual Disclaimer.

Alex

Re: Spitfire P9374 Article Aeroplane June 2008
 

Alex

Not seen it before, but it certainly looks to be Mr Cazenove's machine! Still struggling to make out those squadron codes, though. I wonder if friend Heinrich, reaching into the cockpit, managed to souvenir the spade grip?

Nice image.

Andy