Ju88 Interception off Ireland, August 1942
 

Can anyone identify the unit and base of a lone Ju88 attacked and damaged by two 41 Squadron Spitfires over the Irish Sea just southwest of Dublin, around 12:30 hrs, on 14 August 1942?

The code lettering is not recorded, but the aircraft was camouflaged a "greeny black". The 41 Squadron pilots hit and damaged the fuselage and port wing and set the port engine smoking. Despite this, the Ju88 accelerated and pulled away, last seen disappearing over the Irish mainland.

Does anyone have any idea which Geschwader this Ju88 (may have) belonged to, please?

Thanks
Steve

Re: Ju88 Interception off Ireland, August 1942
 

Without delving deeper, sounds like 1 or 3/123 or Wekusta 51

Re: Ju88 Interception off Ireland, August 1942
 

Hi all,
I believe that this was a Ju88D from 1./F123 from Buc, (which had positioned to Brest) and was first intercepted by Woodvale based 315 Sqn (Polish) norh west of Barrow by F/Lt W Miksa and Sgt J Malec who damaged it but return fire forced Malec to break off and land at Squires Gate. On the Ju88's return it encountered 41 Sqn. east of Dublin ( not south west of Dublin which would take them inland over neutral territory). Two Spitfires and a Ju88 were identified by the Irish Coastwatchers flying off Dublin and North Wicklow and the Ju88 was last observed passing Carnsore at a low altitude. I believe it made it back to Brest, would very much like to identify the JU88. HTH
Regards
Tony K

Re: Ju88 Interception off Ireland, August 1942
 

Hi Chris and Tony

Thank you very much for this information, which is of great help, and very interesting indeed.

I have a page from a Group Intelligence Report, which details 41 Squadron's interception, and have just gone back to check it and found that a report on 315 Squadron's interception is on the same page. However, a part of it is missing, so I'm going to try to get a copy of the next page as well.

You are quite correct that the interception was northeast to east of Dublin - bit of finger trouble there... don't know why I wrote southwest, I must have been thinking that Dublin was southwest of the location of the interception. Sorry for that red herring.

According to 41 Squadron's Combat Reports, the Ju88 was first sighted northeast of Dublin, just north of the Kish Light Ship. They chased the aircraft down the coast, breaking off their attacking off Greystones (ca. 10 miles south of Dublin) after firing off all their ammunition. Although the Combat Reports do not mention where the Ju88 headed after it accelerated and pulled away, the Intelligence Report does, and states, "The e/a took evasive action by weaving and then flew inland over Eire." However, passing Carnsore Point, as you mention Tony, would put the aircraft off the coast, and not over the mainland, so potentially the aircraft was heading back out again...?

Tony, you also say that the Ju88 was intercepted on its return, but when 41 Squadron first sighted the aircraft at 2 o'clock they were heading north and the Ju88 was travelling towards them, which would suggest the Ju88 was heading southwest. This would make sense if it was coming from the direction of Barrow. Additionally, the chase went south, so it would follow the Ju88's general direction. I am trying to understand this in the context of your note that the Ju88 was intercepted on its return. Could you please explain what you mean, or what you understand the Ju88's route or mission to have been, please?

Also, do you know what type of Luftwaffe unit 1./F123 was?

If you’d like copies of the Intelligence Report and/or 41 Squadron Combat Reports, please contact me off-board at brewATclients.ch

Thanks and regards
Steve

Re: Ju88 Interception off Ireland, August 1942
 

Hi Steve,

1.(F)/123 was a long range (Fernaufklärungs - denoted by the (F)) recce unit.

Best Regards

Andy Fletcher

Re: Ju88 Interception off Ireland, August 1942
 

Hi Andy

Thanks for that. Would I therefore be correct in understanding that "1.(F)/123" would be the short form of 1. Fernaufklärungsstaffel / Aufklärungsgruppe 123 [of 3. Luftflotte (France/Belgium)]?

Thanks
Steve

Re: Ju88 Interception off Ireland, August 1942
 

Indeed.

Following links may be of interest if you aren't already aware of the site.

http://www.ww2.dk/air/recon/aufkl123.htm

http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/aufkl/b1ag123.html

Best Regards

Andy Fletcher

Re: Ju88 Interception off Ireland, August 1942
 

Thanks Andy

I have seen them, and it comes in handy sometimes to be able to speak German, as I do!

Cheers
Steve

Re: Ju88 Interception off Ireland, August 1942
 

Hi Steve,
Apologies for causing confusion. The Ju88 after leaving Brest routed into the Western Approaches, Georges Channel and Irish Sea as far as Barrow where the first interception took place by 315 Sqn. It was returning south through the Irish Sea when 41 Sqn. encountered it off the Kish Lightship. A permament lighthouse is now located at the site of the Kish Sandbank. It is clearly visible from Howth (Dublin), Bray and Greystones. The Ju88 was within the 3 mile territorial limit but not overland. 1 Staffel and 3 Staffel of F123 were frequent visitors to the Irish Sea and many observations were made from the Irish Coast as they used Tuskar Rock and Carnsore Point as nav aids. Not all were as lucky as this Ju88 to survive two attacks.
Regards, e mail to follow
tony K

Re: Ju88 Interception off Ireland, August 1942
 

Hi Tony

Thanks for your reply. I am very interested in what you write and would like to discuss this further off board. I look forward to hearing from you in due course.

As an aside, it is interesting to note that documents I have obtained show 41 Squadron's pilots being award quarter shares in damaging the Ju88. It only became clear why with your post, and a subsequent check of Tony Woods' Allied Claims docs shows that the damaged Ju88 was actually shared with 315 Squadron, so half per unit, and 1/4 per pilot, even though the two units never saw each other!

Would you kindly share your sources with me and I am happy to share with you the documents I have.

I look forward to hearing from you

Regards
Steve

Steve Brew
London, UK
brew@clients.ch
The Pilots of 41 Squadron RAF, 1939-1945
http://brew.clients.ch/RAF41Sqdn.htm
________________________________

Re: Ju88 Interception off Ireland, August 1942
 

I have another enquiry about an action over the Irish Sea, it is a couple of months later on December 15th 1942 (date could be between 14th-16th).

I do not know what units were involved, I just have information about ferry picking up four German pilots on the 15th and two RAF pilots on the 16th.

Could anybody provide any further information on how these men ended up ditching in the Irish Sea?

Regards,

Mark

Re: Ju88 Interception off Ireland, August 1942
 

Hi Coldmeter,

I dont know if this helps I have a note that on 13-12-42 I(F)/33 lost two Ju88D-1s, The crew of Oblt Hassold was reported initially as missing but later rescued while the other crew of Ltn Flemming were missing in Pl.Qu. 7151. I have no more info. but perhaps someone could advise as to whether Oblt.Hassolds crew were the crew picked up by the ferry,

Regards

Brian Bines

Re: Ju88 Interception off Ireland, August 1942
 

Mark,
Would you have any idea which ferry was involved, Rosslare /Fishguard, Dublin /Holyhead or Belfast Larne/Stranraer?
Tony K

Re: Ju88 Interception off Ireland, August 1942
 

Tony,

It was the Holyhead - Dublin ferry. Two of the German pilots died before they could be landed at Holyhead.

Regards,

Mark

Re: Ju88 Interception off Ireland, August 1942
 

3/33 was operating in the Med in Dec 42-Hassold & his crew came down off Spain, were interned and later repatriated. I have the Luftwaffe reports for Dec 42 so will delve a little deeper

Re: Ju88 Interception off Ireland, August 1942
 

Luftflotte 3 reported the loss of a "1/33" Ju 88 on 13 Dec. It had taken off at 0730 hrs and at 1005 hrs reported it was flying on one engine in Quad 4Ost/7115 headed 350 degrees at 100 metre. This was the Hassold crew so we can discount this. Nothing is apparent 14 Dec 42, 15 Dec or 17 Dec

Re: Ju88 Interception off Ireland, August 1942
 

Hi Mark,

I take it there is no possibility about the year of this incident. The reason I ask is that an NVM reports the loss of a crew of 1(F)120 on the 14-12-43. It shows the aircraft reported the left engine on fire and that probaly an emergency landing would be made between 57 and 58 Grad nord and 2-3 Grad west (off the Hebridies?). If the fire was bourght under control the aircraft may have made for neutral Eire and ditched. The crew are shown as missing probaly drowned, and then two are notated over as gefallen. Details are Ff Ofw Paul Weber, B Ltn. Hans-Ulrich Birninger, Bf Fw Wolfgang Jahrig, Bs Obf Jakob Rohr. Following Chris' information on the I(F)/33 I could not find another candidate for Dec 1942 , always glad for any correction though,

regards

Brian Bines

Re: Ju88 Interception off Ireland, August 1942
 

Hi all,
I have a note that Avro Anson I AX564 2(O) AFU Millon, ditched in the sea 20 miles north of Bardsey on 15 December 1942. I have no further details. This ditching would put it more or less in the area of the course of the Dublin/Holyhead ferry.
A possible part of the jigsaw or an addition to confusion?
Regards
Tony K

Re: Ju88 Interception off Ireland, August 1942
 

Hi Tony,

Arrcording to the newspaper article, the two RAF men were part of a crew of four, they had ditched into the sea on Sunday 13th, so that doesn't tie in with the Anson on the 15th.

It seems that it may go un-resolved.

Regards,

Mark

Re: Ju88 Interception off Ireland, August 1942
 

Hi Mark,
I posted a question on Ross NcNeill's RAF commands Forums and he supplied me with details confirming that in fact an Anson had come down in the sea and the crew were picked up by a steamer, but does not mention names(with thanks to Ross). The ORB does not give names either.
Your initial posting#11 mentions 15th Dec and or between 16th and 19th and posting #19 lists 13th. Is the newspaper named and can you confirm the date Sunday 13th?
Kind regards
Tony K

Re: Ju88 Interception off Ireland, August 1942
 

Hi Tony,

I have the article saved, I can send it you if you like. Send me a PM with your email address.

Regards,

Mark