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- - Phoos 3-25 (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=13219)

edwest

25th May 2008 23:12

Phoos 3-25

Don Pearson

26th May 2008 18:40

Re: Phoos 3-25

The 109 photo looks a lot like Marseille.

Don

richardb

26th May 2008 19:06

Re: Phoos 3-25

Who could explain this photo ?

A lot of Fiat A.R.30 two seaters with "fake" german stencils

Could be for a movie in Italy ?

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...m=130224164751

GaraiB

26th May 2008 19:15

Re: Phoos 3-25

Quote:

Originally Posted by richardb (Post 66724)

Who could explain this photo ?

A lot of Fiat A.R.30 two seaters with "fake" german stencils

Could be for a movie in Italy ?

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...m=130224164751

Hello Richardb,

It is real markings, Fiat Cr32's after Anschluss in Austria. Painted out the Austrian marking and used the German cross.
Kind regards,

GaraiB

richardb

26th May 2008 22:00

Re: Phoos 3-25

Thanks ,very interesting .

But at least the +182 is a two seats Fiat ,isn't it ?
Did Austria used A.R. 30 too ? (or two seats Cr 32 )

RT	26th May 2008 22:27

Re: Phoos 3-25

The 109 photo looks a lot like Marseille.

Don

But it's not the 14256...CH+KN not far , puzzling it's norm. the 14256 would hv to be the CH+KA...

Rémi

Jochen Prien

27th May 2008 10:10

Re: Phoos 3-25

Dear Don,
dear Rémi,

this time it really looks as if the photo shows Hans-Joachim Marseille. Yet I dare say the aircraft is still a Bf 109 F, most likely an F-4 trop. The photo was probably taken while Marseille was on his way back to North Africa after his last vacation in the summer of 1942 and shows him with a "Freidrich" that he transferred from Italy to North Africa, the a/c still wearing its Stammkennzeichen. But that of course is only a guess.

Regards

Jochen Prien

markjsheppard

27th May 2008 11:25

Re: Phoos 3-25

Hi

Any idea what the chalk writing on the canopy back armour might be saying. Seems there is also some on the fuselage as well - by the K.

Would CH+KA be 14242? Any loss listings with JG27 in north Africa for this G2?

Just a thought.

regards

Mark

Tomislav Haramincic

27th May 2008 12:49

Re: Phoos 3-25

Quote:

Originally Posted by markjsheppard (Post 66768)

Hi Mark,

WNr.14 242 had the Stkz CC+PM. I have no details for this aircraft.
The chalk writing on the head armour looks to me like 8558/??.
Bf 109F-4/trop WNr.8558 was with the 9./JG27 as I have one loss report
02.04.42 9./JG27 Fw. Walter Hillgruber, Flak über Tobruk - Notlandung, S El-Adem - 20% (F-4/trop)

regards,
Tomislav

RT	27th May 2008 12:50

Re: Phoos 3-25

14242 is CC+PM, last of the serie is 14255 CC+PZ, but the next one 14256 is quoted as CH+KN...., it would be great to start with CH+KA like the picture...

rémi

Modeldad

27th May 2008 14:49

Re: Phoos 3-25

Fiat Aircraft: Difficult to tell if they are CR 30 or 32. Austria received both. The difference basically being the CR 32 was a slightly scaled down CR 30. Given the shape of the fin on 182, in inclined to say it is a CR 30, but only a guess as the CR 30 and 32 were very similar in appearance.

But I do not believe 182 is a CR 30B (Biposto). What you as the front windscreen I believe is the top of the fin of the aircraft next/behind.

F19Gladiator

27th May 2008 15:56

Re: Phoos 3-25

Regarding the Fiat parade:

'182' was one of the three Fiat C.R. 30 biposto two-seater aircraft.
They had numbers '180', '181' and '182'. '181' belonged to Jagdgruppe I./135 Aibling and the other two belonged to Jagdgruppe I./138 Aspern.

The photo is published in an article 'Unternehmen "Otto"' in Fleger Revue extra No.3 and is from the collection of Mr Petrick according to the photo caption.
It is also stated that the photo was taken in Wiener-Neustadt at a parade for Göring.
Br
Goran

John Beaman

27th May 2008 17:24

Re: Photos 3-25

Regarding the 109, it is definitely an F as you can see the glass quarter panel through the open canopy. Also, the canopy is definitely an F type.

As to whether it is Marseille, it certainly looks like him, his style of dress: rolled up sleeves, "50 mission" crush cap, sun glasses and all that hardware around the neck. This could be when he returned from receiving the diamonds. He likely ferried a plane back to Afrika. Another clue that it might be a ferry aircraft comes from the overhead pilot armor being in place. As far as we can determine, Marseille never flew one of "his" aircraft with this in place.

As for the SKZ, Rabe Anton and I believe the style of the "K" in the SKZ may be a clue to its maker and an SKZ block and WNr.

You can see where this machine may fit in from reading a recently published book by Rabe Anton and myself on Marseille's aircraft. The publisher's link is here:

http://www.airpowereditions.com/our-...Marseille.html

edwest

28th May 2008 03:17

Re: Phoos 3-25

Gentlemen,

I would like to hazard an interpretation of the chalk marks:

ncce/ec or eg

Ed

Tomislav Haramincic

28th May 2008 14:24

Re: Phoos 3-25

Hi,

Here's a better view to the chalk writing

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3.../misc/8558.jpg

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