Hahn BF 109 colours
 

hi first post here. i am building a BF 109 and wish to paint it in the colours of Assi Hahn, kommodore of 3./JG 2 in France, 1941. i have found that the cowling and rudder were red.

can anyone tell me what red it was?

Re: Hahn BF 109 colours
 

The colors were yellow, not red. That is a mistake made by people many years ago looking at an ortho-chromatic film print that makes yellow appear as a dark shade as red would. Unfortunately the myth is still around.

See also Eagle Editions' book on Hahn and his machines.

Re: Hahn BF 109 colours
 

The problem is that difference of colors on orthochromatic and panchromatic materials and using different colouring filters can show us unpredictable results.

Re: Hahn BF 109 colours
 

so are you agreeing or not? its yellow?

Re: Hahn BF 109 colours
 

Definitely not red!

Re: Hahn BF 109 colours
 

:D

Re: Hahn BF 109 colours
 

amiers,
Perhaps these might help you with your model:

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/3...n109f01ta5.jpg

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/3...n109f02fk5.jpg

And to help you with terminology, Hahn was Gruppenkommandeur of III./JG 2.

Hope this helps.

Re: Hahn BF 109 colours
 

Helpful images (from Aeromaster decals and Scaleworkshop) I hope:

Re: Hahn BF 109 colours
 

Hi all;
A few comments about Assi Hahn's Bf 109 Fs!
The cowlings were yellow. The early F-2s had the complete engine cowling yellow. Sometime in late July 1941, the yellow was reduced to the under cowling. One of Assi's crew men made him a superb desk model of one of his F-4s and painted it using original RLM colors. The under cowling was yellow but the spinner was red. The story we were told the desk model was painted this way to identify the Gruppenkommandeur's machine. So far no photos of this F-4 are known.
The two photos just posted shows Assi by the tail of his F-4 and the other photo is of Assi's Major beim Stab Oblt. Josef Puchinger.
Cheers,
Jerry

Re: Hahn BF 109 colours
 

to ChrisS
a very nice model.

to the others:
can anyone add the Werknummer of this a/c and its Stammkennzeichen?

Re: Hahn BF 109 colours
 

Hi,
That Bf 109 F-2 was W.Nr. 5749 with the Stammkennzeichen KH+DN.
Chris, a beautiful model!! The profile has problems,however.
Cheers, Jerry

Re: Hahn BF 109 colours
 

thanks all. i now know where im going.

Re: Hahn BF 109 colours
 

That's all very well, but what colour was the mottle camouflage on the dog in the photo?

Re: Hahn BF 109 colours
 

Nick,

RLM black & white, obviously!

Re: Hahn BF 109 colours
 

Thank to all for info.

Re: Hahn BF 109 colours
 

Not according to Karl Ries's classic "Dora, Kurfürst und Spot: Markierungen und Tarnanstriche der deutschen Hünde, 1933–45" (Fido Verlag, Rottweil, 1966).

Re: Hahn BF 109 colours
 

Sounds like a 'Haarige Hünde Geschichte' to me. :D

Re: Hahn BF 109 colours
 

But Nick, I have a huge amount of information on animal activity in WW2. Betcha haven't got this:

The following report is classified as ‘Most Secret’ and must only be viewed by those with the relevant security clearance.

“On the morning of 6th June 1944 we were awoken early and told we would be moving to France. We had half an hour to clear our nests and take as much bird seed as we could carry. After receiving orders of flight direction, and where to land, I took off, with Pigeon Leader Swallow as my number 2. After a trouble free flight over the Channel, we landed at makeshift nests a few hundred yards inside France, close to the front line. Groundcrew were waiting for us, and upon landing they immediately set to work massaging our undercarriage, sharpening our beaks and preening our wings. We were put on immediate standby, as enemy carrier pigeons had been seen in the vicinity. At 10:00 hours a section of two were scrambled, myself, and Pigeon Leader Swallow as my number 2 once again. A lone enemy carrier pigeon had been sighted, and soon after taking off we were vectored onto it. I spotted it at low altitude, and waggled my wings to let my number 2 know that I had seen our quarry. I positioned myself up-sun and made a diving attack on what I identified as a Messerschmitt Dove, one of their newest variants. It was from a crack unit, as it sported a yellow beak, and yellow tail feathers. Attacking from above and slightly astern, I managed to damage its port wing with my beak before climbing away to make a second attack. I noticed small ordinances falling away from it after my first attack. I dived for a second attack, determined to take this bird prisoner. I positioned myself above it, dived down, and managed to capture it in my claws. My wingman squawked his appreciation of this victory. I then flew back to base with my quarry, and landed with the prisoner. Pigeon Leader Swallow witnessed this victory.

I claim one Messerschmitt Dove confirmed.

Following this combat, I passed on my knowledge to the rest of Falcon Squadron. In particular, not to attack these birds from below, as their defence is to shit upon you from a great height!



Signed: Wing Commander Bird
Falcon Squadron


The following interrogation report is ‘Most Secret’. Information was only obtained after putting the enemy pigeon on half rations of bird seed and water for a week.

“Following the invasion on 6th June 1944, I was charged with a most dangerous mission: to take many important messages from the front line to Headquarters several miles inland. I decided to fly this mission myself, as it would have been unfair to pass it down to one of my ‘fledgling’ birds. After a full servicing I was loaded up with 8 messages, which made take-off very difficult. Once in the air, I determined to fly low in order to avoid detection. The whole area was crawling with allied bird watchers with the latest binoculars. I was not successful, and soon my flight was picked up by an allied bird watcher, who passed me on to others as I flew slowly inland. I knew that they had alerted an interception flight, and I saw two enemy ‘birds’ taking off from nearby nests. They soon caught up with me, and I saw the leader position himself above me and prepare for an attack. I turned to look at him as he came in, and as he got close I could tell from the marking s on his body that he was a high ranking officer. His tail feathers also showed many victories. I realised I was in serious trouble. I was slow and could not manoeuvre, and his first attack damaged my port wing. To save myself, I dropped all the messages and tried to escape. However he made a second attack and managed to snaffle me in his claws and take me prisoner. We soon landed at his home nest, where I was treated very well. I was given as much bird seed as I wanted, and my hosts could not have been more generous with water. This was my 45th war flight, and I was in line for a golden bird seed bowl upon completing 50 flights.



Hauptmann Taube
Commanding Officer, Dove Staffel

Re: Hahn BF 109 colours
 

John, that's brilliant. Will your full collection be published by Osprey, Eagle or Red Kite?

P.S. I work with a guy who's got the medal awarded to his Grandad's messenger pigeon for its war service (Really — he loaned the medal and other memorabilia to the IWM for an exhibition not long ago).

Re: Hahn BF 109 colours
 

Well, there's plenty of 'Secret Project' stuff on the Lw - why not the RAF?

Re: Hahn BF 109 colours
 

Well, there's plenty of 'Secret Project' stuff that's been published on the Lw - why not the RAF?