allied pilots in luftwaffe
 

Hi all,
Just a strange thought, I know it is well documented that there were 'allied nation' troops that served with the german ground forces in WW2 ( as I understand it only on the east front ).
But anyone know of any air crew from 'allied nations' , that flew in the luftwaffe ?
Cheers
Jerry

Re: allied pilots in luftwaffe
 

Re: allied pilots in luftwaffe
 

What do you exactly mean with "allied nations"? There were danish, swedish, french, russian even 1 brazilian pilot by the Luftwaffe and their motives were completely different.If you use German language I can give you a name of a realy good book about the foreign personal by Luftwaffe.

Re: allied pilots in luftwaffe
 

Hi Yves, in fact I could trace two Brazilian pilots in Luftwaffe:

http://www.mach2.hpg.ig.com.br/Mach2Egon.htm (Egon Albrecht) and

http://www.ipmscuritiba.com.br/materias/wolfgang.html (Wolfgang Ortmann)

Hugs.

Re: allied pilots in luftwaffe
 

Some Soviet pilots also did - i.e. S.T. Bychkov - 42, than 287 IAP. Hero of SU and vice commander of 482 IAP. Shot down at 11th December 1943. Than in december 1944 was formning 1 IAP of VVS KONR. Executed 4th November 1946.
Full info:
http://www.aces.boom.ru/all6/bychkov.htm

Re: allied pilots in luftwaffe
 

I would not call them Brasilians, rather Germans with Brasilian citizenship or place of birth. There is a big difference between nationality and citizenship.

Re: allied pilots in luftwaffe
 

Remember the only "original" Brazilians are the indians. Brasil was formed by diferent waves of imigrants, starting with Portuguese. So, both them were born in Brasil and fought as Brazilians in Luftwaffe. And, following your thoughts, several German soldiers were not German also.

Re: allied pilots in luftwaffe
 

Well he has a point since these would still be considered as Volksdeutschen, unlike for instance dutch volunteers who served with the Waffen SS.

Re: allied pilots in luftwaffe
 

Hi All,
Many thanks for the replies,
My term 'allied nations' , maybe I should have used the term 'non axis nations' ? ( i.e. not german, italian, spanish, etc.)
Most interesting the reasons behind why there were so few, It is a subject that has suddenly un-explainably interested me.

Yves Marino,

'danish, swedish, french, russian brazilian '
this sounds most interesting, I would be most interested in the title of the book , although my german knowledge is very very basic.

I know nationality and birth place always brings 'interesting' discussions.
Again many thanks all for the replies.
Cheers
jerry

Re: allied pilots in luftwaffe
 

Not exactly. PAF was a multinational force, there served eg. Americans, Chechs, Estonians, Slovaks, etc. I am even awared of a French airmen who choose to serve with Poles rather than in his native AF. It was clearly distinguished nationality and citizenship, so for example we had American Poles and American Americans enlisted.
Concerning German soldiers, you are absolutelly right. I have been personally talking with a one, who was a Polish citizen, who was a forced labour and then enlisted with a 10 years trial German citizenship. He was trained in Jutland together with some 100 other soldiers like him, only two of them signing Volksliste. Guess what they did when send to a front in Luxembourg.

Re: allied pilots in luftwaffe
 

I think they could qualify for Reichsdeutschers. The answer is of course in their personal papers.

Re: allied pilots in luftwaffe
 

Franek, you just put in words exactly what I intended to note.
Nationality and citizenship are not necessarily the same, particularly in regards to Central and Eastern Europe.

Re: allied pilots in luftwaffe
 

Not Pilot, but Friedrich Gustav Hansen born Melrose Scotland 9 jan 1913, KIA 9 jan 1941, JU88 from Stab I KG30, crashed Breda Holland (radio Operator) father German, mother Scottish, taken to Germany 1920, Father very bitter about treatment during ww1. Brother William (Willi) Wilson Hamsen died Prien 3 May 1945 of wounds ? unit buried Traunstein.
A friend was at School with them 1919-20 in Melrose Scotland.

Hansen Family last Address Magdeburg in May 1945
Nothing about them in German military/Luftwaffe records except date of death and crash report for 9 jan 1941 (from Chris Goss and Jap Woortman)

Anyone Have any info on KG30 at Eindhoven late 1940/41. Had contact but
no response from address emailed to me last year

Robert

Re: allied pilots in luftwaffe
 

Some information can be found in the book "In the Skies of Europe" by Hans Werner Neulen. Text is English.



Usual disclaimer,
Ed

Re: allied pilots in luftwaffe
 

Hi,
For others that might be interested found this site during my research
http://jpgleize.club.fr/aces/ww2luft.htm
Cheers
Jerry

Re: allied pilots in luftwaffe
 

Wow! Thanks Jerry.



Ed

Re: allied pilots in luftwaffe
 

Just some bits of information on the Danish pilots mentioned in the list in Jerry's link.

On Peter Horn: Information on this pilot is very scarce. He is mentioned in Neulen's book and in the victory list of Aders/Held. Jagdgeschwader 51 ”Mölders“. Eine Chronik. Berichte, Erlebnisse, Dokumente. Motorbuch Verlag Stuttgart. To my knowledge - and I would be happy to be corrected - that is about it. He survived the war.

On Poul Sommer: The possiblity of 6 victories is mentioned in some sources, but to my knowledge 3 is the more likely number. To be more precise a Kittyhawk (sometimes labelled a Spitfire) on 23rd Oct. 1942, a Spitfire on 28th Oct 1942 while serving 4./JG27 and a Spitfire on 20th March 1943 while serving Gruppenstab II./JG27. A bit more information and a photo can be found in Jochen Prien et al. Messerschmitt Bf 109 im Einsatz bei der II./JG27. In May 1943, he became Staffelkapitän of 10./JG27 when a fourth gruppe was added, but returned to Denmark later that summer to become leader of a special Luftwaffe unit that guarded Luftwaffe installations in Denmark. He died in 1979.

Regards, Mikkel

Re: allied pilots in luftwaffe
 

In many of these aces lists we see the same nonsense. Also here.
Was Godefroy a Dutch ace. I don't think so. If he was an ace, he was a Canadian ace! See also the story about Hugh Godefroy by Almer Regter at 'WWII ace stories.
Was Kesseler a Dutch ace with 16 victories? Some years ago I did some research on him to find out. Here is the result.

G.A.Kesseler a Dutch ace?
For me it started with a question at the Luftwaffe Forum 12 O’Clock High(TOCH) at March 11th, 1999. “Who knows something of the Dutch ace Gerald A.Kesseler”. He claimed 16 victories. Kesseler was also mentioned at the Fighter Pilot ‘Ace’ list of Al Bowers at http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/aces.html

But who was Gerald A.Kessler? We have found him as Gerardus Adrianus Kesseler in the book ‘The Royal Netherlands Military Flying School’ by Ward, Boer and Casius at page 150 and 224. I quote:

- Kesseler, G.A. landstorm vaandrig. Gebrevetterd 13 maart 1943. B-25 opleiding en is op 17

mei 1943 ontheven wegens medische redenen en heringedeeld Supply 27 september 1943.

- Kesseler, G.A. res.2e lt. Vlieger wnr. 1 mei 1944 overgeplaatst Netherlands Purchasing

Commission New York.

In translation G.A.Kesseler has received his wings at March 13th, 1943. He was in training for the B-25 and released of the training at May 17, 1943, for medical reasons. He was transferred as 2nd Lt. Pilot Observer to the Netherlands Purchasing Commission in New York, USA.

He will have obtained his 16 victories at the bar in New York or between the sheets, but he was not a Dutch ace!

Re: allied pilots in luftwaffe
 

Hi All,
Many thanks for the input, so the site info may have to be checked first.
I suppose it all depends on where the site builders got the info from and if it was cross checked, but any info is a starting point, on a subject that seems to have so little written about it.
Cheers
Jerry