"Yellow 16" of Unit: 9./JG27 Flown in the MTO, 1943 who was the pilot KIA?
 

I'm trying to track down the name of the pilot KIA flying the above plane in 1943.

The only details I have other than the above are these:

The 109-G6 had been found in a Wheat field after the surrender of Germany in North Africa. It was taken to a nearby British Airfield.
It had been landed by a mortally wounded but was relatively intact. A 20mm shell had gone through the longeron on the Port side and exploded in the cockpit, another had exploded against the pilots armour plated seat and one had gone through the rudder. One tyre was flat due to the landing, but that was all.

A new battery was fitted to it, and the damage patched up, and the 325th FG had their first 109!

I have managed to find out that it was this plane "Yellow 16" of Unit: 9./JG27" but I'm wondering if it is possible to find the pilot who would have been reported either MIA or KIA, I have no specific date for the loss of the aircraft other than it was 1943.

Any help welcomed, cheers, MP.

Re: "Yellow 16" of Unit: 9./JG27 Flown in the MTO, 1943 who was the pilot KIA?
 

Dear Sir,

the Bf 109 G-6 you are refering to has been on my mind for quite some time; I was wondering in particular, why on the photos of this aircraft the cabin glazing appears to be blind, as if iced from the cabin inside, while the aircraft appears to be otherwise relatively intact. Of course, if a shell exploded in the cabin, just this effect could have been the result.

With your story behind these photos it appears quite likely that we are looking here at Bf 109 G-6 trop, WerkNr. 16 531, that was reported lost on May 6th, 1943 with Uffz. Gorrisch being wounded in the Tunis area. Strange enough, there are no further details known, neither the Christian name of the pilot nor his evenutal fate or the Staffel within III./JG 27 that he belonged to.

Probably some other member of the community can take it up from here and give us further details to both the pilot and the aircraft. Or I am completely mistaken and the have to beg your pardon for leading you on the wrong trail.

Regards

Jochen Prien

Re: "Yellow 16" of Unit: 9./JG27 Flown in the MTO, 1943 who was the pilot KIA?
 

Further to my above post I can add that the first name of Uffz. Gorrisch was most likely Gerhard according to a note stored at the WASt. His further career after being wounded on the above date is not known.

Hope this helps.

Jochen Prien

Re: "Yellow 16" of Unit: 9./JG27 Flown in the MTO, 1943 who was the pilot KIA?
 

Jochen, many, many thanks for your help and the time you have taken to reply.

It is more than I could have hoped for that I would actually find out who the pilot was, but you have fulfilled the criteria admirably.

Thank you once again for all your help, I am really most grateful, yours, Neil

Re: "Yellow 16" of Unit: 9./JG27 Flown in the MTO, 1943 who was the pilot KIA?
 

This Bf-109G-6 was the famous black painted Bf109 flown by the 325th FG in North Africa.

Re: "Yellow 16" of Unit: 9./JG27 Flown in the MTO, 1943 who was the pilot KIA?
 

Dear Jochen,

From your comments, are you thinking of the Bf 109 G-6 aircraft "ge.16+~", WNr.15144 found in the MTO?

This aircraft is seen in images as being virtually intact and appearing almost new. The canopy has what I would think white paper covering all the plexiglas suggesting that it was a replacement.

Many years ago our mutual friend David Johnston send you a copy of my photo of it, and since then he has collected several more. These latter images appear to show it being dismantled by American troops. Perhaps it might have ended up back in the USA?

Cheers,

David

Re: "Yellow 16" of Unit: 9./JG27 Flown in the MTO, 1943 who was the pilot KIA?
 

Dear David,

yes, I think we are talking about the same aircraft. However, the WerkNr. 15 144 you are giving is not the one of this airplane, as 15 144 belonged to a Bf 109 G-4 trop of 5./JG 51 that was damaged on April 17th, 1943, and apparently left behind at Protville when II./JG 51 left Tunisia for good a couple of days later. The Messerschmitt we're looking at hear is a Bf 109 G-6 trop beyond any doubt.

Looking at the photo you sent me through David Johnston many years ago you will see that the paint scheme of the tailfin does not fit the rest of the aircraft; and in fact, on another photo that was auctioned on ebay in July 2007 one can see " yellow 16 " from the starboard side with a tailfin from another aircraft leaning against the fuselage, so that it seems reasonable to assume that this tailfin was about to be fitted to "yellow 16" in exchange for the original part that may have been damaged. And this talfin apparently was that of WerkNr. 15 144.

So I still stand to my original assumption that the "yellow 16" we are discussing here was the aircraft of Uffz. Gerhard Gorrisch of 9./JG 27, Bf 109 G-6 trop, WerkNr. 16 531, reported lost on May 6th, 1943.

Re: "Yellow 16" of Unit: 9./JG27 Flown in the MTO, 1943 who was the pilot KIA?
 

This is the plane I am referring to, which was then repainted Black by the 325th:

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/k...aptured109.jpg

http://www.aqqm31.dsl.pipex.com/109G.jpg

Hope that helps clear any confusion, cheers, MP.

Re: "Yellow 16" of Unit: 9./JG27 Flown in the MTO, 1943 who was the pilot KIA?
 

Dear Neil,

yes, that is the "Gustav" we are talking about.

Regards

Jochen Prien

Re: "Yellow 16" of Unit: 9./JG27 Flown in the MTO, 1943 who was the pilot KIA?
 

I could at least confirm the christian name of " Gerrich" as written in GQG returns, as Gerhard, reported as wounded, seems to hv been recovered wounded by the german side, as he is reported wounded, how the allies know that he died ??

Remi

Re: "Yellow 16" of Unit: 9./JG27 Flown in the MTO, 1943 who was the pilot KIA?
 

I was going from the book which put him as "Mortally wounded", however I suppose that it never actually said KIA, I assumed that, so apologies for that inaccuracy, I believe that could have been my misinterpretation

However, as I said before, thank you for your help with identifying the pilot and his eventual repatriation.

Yours, Neil.

Re: "Yellow 16" of Unit: 9./JG27 Flown in the MTO, 1943 who was the pilot KIA?
 

Hello Jochen,

Oh, now I recall our earlier discussion.

As you state, the werknummer 15144 is clearly is clearly that of a G-4. With the discovery of the photos showing the repair in progress, and the loss information, the confusion is sorted out.

For the record I enclose my image – that is virtually identical to that posted above - plus an enlargement of the tail showing the werknummer. I also post the images of its repair by the Americans that you described.

Cheers,

David

Re: "Yellow 16" of Unit: 9./JG27 Flown in the MTO, 1943 who was the pilot KIA?
 

Clearly a G-4, What we could see clearly is that plane has "beule", at least one maybe a Bf109g-4,6..

remi

on the losses we could find in the 151xx range some G-6

Re: "Yellow 16" of Unit: 9./JG27 Flown in the MTO, 1943 who was the pilot KIA?
 

The 15 1xx range was an G-4trop range without any G-6.

Regarding the "yellow 16" I agree with Jochen Prien because according the camouflage the a/c was delivered for sure by Regensburg and not by Erla. So IMHO the 15 144 fin was used during the repair of the G-6.

Best wishes
Rasmussen

Re: "Yellow 16" of Unit: 9./JG27 Flown in the MTO, 1943 who was the pilot KIA?
 

The 15 1xx range was an G-4trop range without any G-6.

Some in the losses are reported as G-6, but one time to time without continuity, any spur of remanufactured G-4 in G-6 ??


Regarding the "yellow 16" I agree with Jochen Prien because according the camouflage the a/c was delivered for sure by Regensburg and not by Erla. So IMHO the 15 144 fin was used during the repair of the G-6.

Nd that G-6 was 16531 ??

remi

Re: "Yellow 16" of Unit: 9./JG27 Flown in the MTO, 1943 who was the pilot KIA?
 

Hello remi,

1. What about mistakes in the reports? Weren't unusual. The factory delivered all a/c's as G-4trop. Regarding an remanufactoring from G-4 to G-6 I exclude it for Erla factory ... and in field units?

2. Here I think Mr. Prien is the expert. I exclude the Erla-W.Nr. for an Mtt.-fuselage.

Best wishes
Rasmussen

Re: "Yellow 16" of Unit: 9./JG27 Flown in the MTO, 1943 who was the pilot KIA?
 

Dear Rémi,

I cannot add anything to what I have said so far - we have no proof but it seems very likely that this " yellow 16 " was in fact the a/c in which Uffz. Gerhard Gorrisch of 9./JG 27 was wounded in the Tunis area on May 6th, 1943, recorded as Bf 109 G-6 trop with WerkNr. 16 531.

Regards

Jochen Prien

Re: "Yellow 16" of Unit: 9./JG27 Flown in the MTO, 1943 who was the pilot KIA?
 

This is NOT Erla aircraft in case it has no compressor fairing common for all G-6 and G-5 produced by Erla whenever the aircraft was fitted with hermetized cockpit.