109 K-4 RLM 84?
 

i have seen reference to the colour RLM 84 when reading about K-4's. can anyone tell me what was the colour, and on what area's of the plane this colour was used?

Re: 109 K-4 RLM 84?
 

I know of no official German publication that lists RLM 84.

This is the color (linked from IPMS Stockholm):

http://www.colorserver.net/showcolor.asp?fs=34554




Ed

Re: 109 K-4 RLM 84?
 

Hi,
Please see:
http://scalemodels-bg.com/Documents/...%20colours.pdf

maybe this ought to be a sticky.
bregds
SES

Re: 109 K-4 RLM 84?
 

Concerning to L.Dv. 521/1 there should be no RLM84 as there was no remains of this paint in the text. Detailed studying of photos and remains of existing planes allows me to assume with 99 percent probability it could be either RLM02 if paint is new or result of RLM 76 paint decay because of weather conditions.

Re: 109 K-4 RLM 84?
 

There was no RLM84 although several authors who have looked into the matter (Merrick, Poruba and I think Ullmann) all agree that there was a new color for undersurfaces late in the war.

The explanation being that as the color has been found on different aircraft in different locations, as well as aircraft made in different manufacturing plants, a faded or somehow corrupted RLM76 batch is unlikely as it's use seems to widespread.

/Anders

Re: 109 K-4 RLM 84?
 

The term "RLM 84" was a post war creation to give a label to an officially unidentified and undesignated color. The color is approximately similar to RAF Sky, although it appears it could vary.

The color was found on the original paint on a He 219 at the Smithsonian NASM. It was not a mutation of 76, but rather a definite color.

Here you can see it sprayed as a squggle pattern over a dark gray (which in itself was not identified).

http://home.earthlink.net/%7Eplanepix/He219NASM1.jpg

Re: 109 K-4 RLM 84?
 

Accordng to Michael Ullmann, the color called RLM 84 occurred because the Germans reduced the amount of chromate in the paint to save on strategic materials . The reduced chromate then caused the RLM 76 to take on the greenish/ yellow tint.

Re: 109 K-4 RLM 84?
 

Chromates are green and yellow, so I do not see the point.

Re: 109 K-4 RLM 84?
 

Not chromates were reduced but pigment:
http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/latewarrlm76mu_1.htm

Re: 109 K-4 RLM 84?
 

Not easy to answer as well some airplanes featured in same time green grey [so called RLM 84], aluminium and RLM 76 paint. But there is enough preserved samples that this color could be with easy reconstructed.

Re: 109 K-4 RLM 84?
 

Chromate is a pigment as well. I was correct, they reduced other pigments (Piubium White? Titanic White? Prussian Blue?), so increased proportion of chromates. By the way chromates appear in two versions, green like 02 or Aircraft Grey Green or yellow, like Zinc Chromate. I do not remember exact formulas, but they are available in any chemistry book.

Re: 109 K-4 RLM 84?
 

You'll have a lot of opinions on this before the thread is completed, here's my two cents.

It is not a color. It's not factory applied, it was done in the field to tone down the sides of the aircraft when parked. The RLM 76 was toned down with a much thinned RLM 02. Depending on how thinned it is and how it was sprayed you'll see different effects. To me the tip off is traces of overspray if one look close.

Re: 109 K-4 RLM 84?
 

Except for the fact that the color was applied to the large portions of the lower fuselage and underside at a production facility. I have seen parts in both the so called 84 and the buff that appeared also. Neither was a field application.


The He 219 at the NASM, was said not to be painted in the filed.

Re: 109 K-4 RLM 84?
 

Field application??? Industrial standard for manufacturing demad parts to be pour into the paint. Call it how ever you want but this grey green color is basic protection of the metal. Or primer for the final camouflage coat. Never mind- it is obvious on many images.

Re: 109 K-4 RLM 84?
 

RLM84 did not exist..technically.

"RLM84" was not on the master RLM list, so 20 years ago this "new found colour" was given the RLM84 designation. It is not an offical designation.

I suspect it was a new paint the Luftwaffe was experimenting with late in the war...or possibly the original paint supplier changed something in thier pigmentation.

There is much documentation of paint types being sprayed too thin, mixed too thin, too dark, too light, etc., and many intances of paint not being sprayed at all.

Usually this was done as the paint was not readily available from the manufacture so late in the war, and quality was not nearly as good either.

Paint manufactures were in the same situation as the aircraft factories, so I suspect they made what they could.

If i was an "official" new colour it would have been on the master RLM list, no? The German's were sticklers for documentation...

Re: 109 K-4 RLM 84?
 

Whatever it was, it seems most unlikely to have been a new primer, as it was used on top of other paints - see the He 219 above. Given the state of German industry and the expected life of the aircraft, it would have made more sense to have abandoned the use of primer, as seen on US and Japanese production.

The lack of documentation may well be simply that - much was destroyed at the end of the war.