Missing Fighter Command aircrew in FCL volumes
 

Whilst looking through the various volumes of Norman Franks FCL I note that a number of pilots are listed as 'missing'.

Does anybody have an idea as to the actual fates of the following missing aircrew:

PO Andrews -19 Sqn -27/6/41
Sgt Barclay -457 Sqn -27/4/42
Lt Barron USAAC - 157 Sqn - 19/11/43
Sgt R.C. Bryson - 111 Sqn - 1/6/42
Lt Burt USAAC - 131 Sqn - 4/9/43
Sgt Cochrane - 74 Sqn - 3/7/41
PO Cowley - 19 Sqn - 27/6/41
PO Dunn - 258 Sqn - 16/6/41
FO D.L. Est - 264 Sqn - 27-28/9/43
Sgt Ford - 602 Sqn - 13/10/41
PO J.D. Ford - 253 Sqn - 23/5/40
FO D.N. Ford - 145 Sqn -23/7/41
Sgt Fox - 234 Sqn - 20/10/41
Sgt Gray - 611 Sqn - 3/7/43
PO Graham - 402 Sqn -27/9/41
PO Hawkins - 64 Sqn -23/2/41
PO B. Hawkins - 245 Sqn - 26/10/41
Sgt R. Hillman - 418 Sqn - 7-8/9/42
PO Holland - 266 Sqn - 27/8/41
Sgt C.H. Howard - 92 Sqn -7/8/41
Sgt Hunter - 603 Sqn - 14/7/41
Sgt Johnson - 65 Sqn - 21/10/41
Sgt Jones - 32 Sqn -11/6/40
PO Jones - 54 Sqn -22/7/41
PO J.F. Knight - 485 Sqn - 21/9/41
PO M. Lepel-Cointet - 616 Sqn - 12/4/43
Sgt W.G. Lockhart - 74 Sqn 6/7/41
Sgt Montgomery - 3 Sqn - 7/11/41
Sgt Murphy - 247 Sqn - 28/8/41
Lt McDonald USAAC - 157 Sqn - 19/11/43
PO Ormond RNZAF - 610 Sqn - 5/3/41
Sgt R.L. Sellers - 616 Sqn - 21/4/41
Mid P.J. Patterson RN - 242 Sqn - 20/8/40
Sgt Poiquier - 341 Sqn -17/8/43
Sgt V.E. Reynolds RCAF - 607 Sqn -2/1/42
Sgt Rowe - 222 Sqn - 30/4/41
Sgt Short - 152 Sqn -24/7/41
F/Sgt H.E.D. Tibby RAF - 418 Sqn -2-3/4/41
Sgt Tucker - 129 Sqn - 21/10/41
PO R. van der Honert - 222 Sqn - 30/4/42
PO Welsh - 154 Sqn - 4/5/42
Sgt K.D. Windsor - 403 Sqn - 20/6/43
F/Lt T.H. Worth - 25 Sqn - 5-6/8/41
Sgt D. Wright - 610 Sqn - 21/8/41
PO Zenker - 501 Sqn - 24/8/40

Regards

Steve Pegge

Re: Missing Fighter Command aircrew in FCL volumes
 

Steve: Suggest you put the names in to the CWGC site

Re: Missing Fighter Command aircrew in FCL volumes
 

Chris,

I've already done that and the list I've posted is of the ones I've not been able to find. I've also worked through the POW lists from TNA (WO 392/7)

Obviously not all war dead are recorded on the CWGC site and most none UK/Commonwealth aircrew are also not on the site. So I though I'd try the forum to try and identify the remainder.

Regards,

Steve

Re: Missing Fighter Command aircrew in FCL volumes
 

I quite agree with you Steve!
There are very few NON UK/Commonwealth airmen recorded on the CGWC indeed. I´ve tried out some Dutch and Belgium airmen and got no joy...very strange since these airmen flew for the RAF, isn´t it?
Yours
Adriano

Re: Missing Fighter Command aircrew in FCL volumes
 

Adriano,

It is, especially as in some cases they rest in Commonwealth graveyards. But I guess the remit of the CWGC is limited to solely Commomwealth personnel.

Regards,

Steve

Re: Missing Fighter Command aircrew in FCL volumes
 

OK. Lets cross check with some publications:

J D Ford-Believed POW
D N Ford-Safe
Sgt Jones-Believed POW
P Zenker-missing
Sgt Rowe-30 Apr 42 not 41. Initials L POW
Van Der Honert-Not lost with 222 Sqn on that date!
Hawkins missing
Sellers-Try Sellars missing
Patterson-missing
Tibby-Try 1942-missing
P H Fox-POW
M F Andrews POW
J A Short-POW

Re: Missing Fighter Command aircrew in FCL volumes
 

...and for Hawkins read Norman Howkins-missing!! They should be there if they are casualties-just think laterally!

Re: Missing Fighter Command aircrew in FCL volumes
 

Hi Adriano and Steve,
The chances are that many non-commonwealth airmen are the responsibility of CWGC. The reason that they do not come on the website is that CWGC seem to have a policy for that website and the criteria for an Airman's details to be available is that he must satisfy one of 2 conditions. He must be a citizen of a Commonwealth country or he must be a non-Commonwealth citizen who is actually enlisted in the RAF or RAFVR.Most non-Commonwealth Airmen were members of their own Air Forces in exile or were enemy Airmen, so that their Graves or Memorials could be the responsibility of CWGC but they are not searchable on the website.Most of us have got into the habit of regarding them simply as Foreign members of the RAF as they flew under the operational orders of the RAF but ,technically, they were non RAF and CWGC makes the distinction even where they are responsible for their graves. 2 names might illustrate this . A Lithuanian Marcinkus served in the RAFVR ,became a POW and was murdered after the Great Escape, His name will come up on CWGC. The Norwegian Hanno Espelid suffered a similar fate, he was a member of the exiled RNoAF. The graves of both are looked after in Poznan Old War Cemetery by Cwgc, but Espelid's name is not on the web site, in accordance with the apparent CWGC policy.
Hope this Helps
Regards
Dick

Re: Missing Fighter Command aircrew in FCL volumes
 

Zenker was Polish and went missing over the Channel.

Re: Missing Fighter Command aircrew in FCL volumes
 

Gents,

Thanks for your inputs. It has reduced the numbers I've still to identify, but I guess in a number of cases I'll never get a definative answer.

Regards,

Steve

Re: Missing Fighter Command aircrew in FCL volumes
 

Updated list, thanks for your various inputs.

PO Andrews -19 Sqn -27/6/41
Sgt Barclay -457 Sqn -27/4/42
1st Lt Thomas R. Barron USAAC - 157 Sqn - 19/11/43 - Killed
Sgt R.C. Bryson - 111 Sqn - 1/6/42
Lt Burt USAAC - 131 Sqn - 4/9/43
Sgt Cochrane - 74 Sqn - 3/7/41
PO Cowley - 19 Sqn - 27/6/41
PO Dunn - 258 Sqn - 16/6/41
FO D.L. Est - 264 Sqn - 27-28/9/43
Sgt Ford - 602 Sqn - 13/10/41
PO J.D. Ford - 253 Sqn - 23/5/40 - POW
FO D.N. Forde - 145 Sqn -23/7/41 - Evaded
Sgt Fox - 234 Sqn - 20/10/41 - POW
Sgt Gray - 611 Sqn - 3/7/43
PO Graham - 402 Sqn -27/9/41
PO Norman Howkins - 64 Sqn -23/2/41 - Killed
PO B. Hawkins - 245 Sqn - 26/10/41
Sgt R. Hillman - 418 Sqn - 7-8/9/42
PO Holland - 266 Sqn - 27/8/41
Sgt C.H. Howard - 92 Sqn -7/8/41 - POW
Sgt Hunter - 603 Sqn - 14/7/41
Sgt Johnson - 65 Sqn - 21/10/41
Sgt Jones - 32 Sqn -11/6/40 - POW?
PO Jones - 54 Sqn -22/7/41
PO J.F. Knight - 485 Sqn - 21/9/41 - POW
PO M. Lepel-Cointet - 616 Sqn - 12/4/43
Sgt W.G. Lockhart - 74 Sqn 6/7/41 - Evaded
Sgt Montgomery - 3 Sqn - 7/11/41
Sgt Murphy - 247 Sqn - 28/8/41
Flt Off John R. McDonald USAAC - 157 Sqn - 19/11/43 - Killed
PO Ormond RNZAF - 610 Sqn - 5/3/41
Sgt R.L. Sellers - 616 Sqn - 21/4/41
Mid P.J. Patterson RN - 242 Sqn - 20/8/40 - Killed
Sgt Poiquier - 341 Sqn -17/8/43
Sgt V.E. Reynolds RCAF - 607 Sqn -2/1/42
Sgt L. Rowe - 222 Sqn - 30/4/41 - POW
Sgt Short - 152 Sqn -24/7/41
F/Sgt H.E.D. Tibby RAF - 418 Sqn -2-3/4/42
Sgt Tucker - 129 Sqn - 21/10/41 -Safe
PO R. van der Honert - 222 Sqn - 30/4/42 -Safe
PO Welsh - 154 Sqn - 4/5/42
Sgt K.D. Windsor - 403 Sqn - 20/6/43
F/Lt T.H. Worth - 25 Sqn - 5-6/8/41
Sgt D. Wright - 610 Sqn - 21/8/41
PO Zenker - 501 Sqn - 24/8/40 -Killed

Anymore information/ideas gratefully received.

Regards,

Steve

Re: Missing Fighter Command aircrew in FCL volumes
 

Guys:
Plt Off M C W Ormond:
1941: 5th March; Spitfire P7596. Ops: Circus 6. Shot down over the Channel by a Bf.109 from JG51.
PoW.

Regards
Tony

Re: Missing Fighter Command aircrew in FCL volumes
 

Steve,

Reply for Poirier (not Poiqiuer) has been given here :

http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/sho...?t=2411&page=2

HTH

Bertrand

Re: Missing Fighter Command aircrew in FCL volumes
 

Hi Steve,

Update of your list, in blue. Orange names may be names unknown to CWGC whilst they ought to be known, but this cannot be stated with certainty at this time.

PO Andrews -19 Sqn -27/6/41
Sgt Barclay -457 Sqn -27/4/42
1st Lt Thomas R. Barron USAAC - 157 Sqn - 19/11/43 - Killed
Sgt R.C. Bryson - 111 Sqn - 1/6/42 - Rhodesian, POW in L3-397
Lt Burt USAAC - 131 Sqn - 4/9/43
Sgt Cochrane - 74 Sqn - 3/7/41 - Escort Blenheims to Hazebrouck - probably missing. Not in POW register. One of several who vanished in this area, and whose aircraft wreck have not yet been found.
PO Cowley - 19 Sqn - 27/6/41 - probably missing. Not in POW register.
PO Dunn - 258 Sqn - 16/6/41 - shot down & baled out over the Channel. Fate unknown
FO D.L. Est - 264 Sqn - 27-28/9/43 - Should be Denis L. West, Mosquito HX852, intruder to Rheine, Germany. MIA, Runnymede Panel 130
Sgt Ford - 602 Sqn - 13/10/41
PO J.D. Ford - 253 Sqn - 23/5/40 - POW
FO D.N. Forde - 145 Sqn -23/7/41 - Evaded
Sgt Fox - 234 Sqn - 20/10/41 - POW
Sgt Gray - 611 Sqn - 3/7/43
PO Graham - 402 Sqn -27/9/41
PO Norman Howkins - 64 Sqn -23/2/41 - Killed
PO B. Hawkins - 245 Sqn - 26/10/41 - probably missing. Not in POW register.
Sgt R. Hillman - 418 Sqn - 7-8/9/42
PO Holland - 266 Sqn - 27/8/41
Sgt C.H. Howard - 92 Sqn -7/8/41 - POW
Sgt Hunter - 603 Sqn - 14/7/41
Sgt Johnson - 65 Sqn - 21/10/41 - shot down. Baled out 8 km south of Le Touquet. Fate unknown
Sgt Jones - 32 Sqn -11/6/40 - POW? - shot down in the Le Tréport area.
PO Jones - 54 Sqn -22/7/41 - crashed in France, POW, cannot find in POW register without first name(s)
PO J.F. Knight - 485 Sqn - 21/9/41 - POW
PO M. Lepel-Cointet - 616 Sqn - 12/4/43 - Marc Lepel-Cointet, FFAF, sweep to St. Omer, MIA over The Channel. FFAF, meaning outside of the scope of CWGC registration.
Sgt W.G. Lockhart - 74 Sqn 6/7/41 - Evaded
Sgt Montgomery - 3 Sqn - 7/11/41 - night patrol off Dover, assumed lost at sea, missing
Sgt Murphy - 247 Sqn - 28/8/41 - intruder to Morlaix, assumed lost at sea, missing
Flt Off John R. McDonald USAAC - 157 Sqn - 19/11/43 - Killed
PO Ormond RNZAF - 610 Sqn - 5/3/41 - Shot down over the Channel by a Bf.109 from JG51 - POW
Sgt R.L. Sellers - 616 Sqn - 21/4/41
Mid P.J. Patterson RN - 242 Sqn - 20/8/40 - Killed
Sgt Poirier - 341 Sqn -17/8/43 - shot down, crashed north of Hesdin, POW, Evd, killed in aircraft accident 16-12-1945
Sgt V.E. Reynolds RCAF - 607 Sqn -2/1/42 - failed to recover from a bombing dive on 04-01-1942, MIA, Runnymede 107
Sgt L. Rowe - 222 Sqn - 30/4/41 - POW
Sgt Short - 152 Sqn -24/7/41 - James Short, assumed crashed in France - POW in 357/18
F/Sgt H.E.D. Tibby RAF - 418 Sqn -2-3/4/42 - Harry Tilby, crashed near Montdidier, France, buried Montdidier French National cemetery
Sgt Tucker - 129 Sqn - 21/10/41 -Safe. Crashed in the Channel off Octeville-sur-Mer, 04-05-1942, North of Le Havre, shot down by Fw.190's, MIA.
PO R. van der Honert - 222 Sqn - 30/4/42 -Safe
PO Welsh - 154 Sqn - 4/5/42 - Thomas M. Welch, crashed North Sea off IJmuiden, MIA, Runnymede 72
Sgt K.D. Windsor - 403 Sqn - 20/6/43 - crashed in France, evaded
F/Lt T.H. Worth - 25 Sqn - 5-6/8/41 - Thomas H. Worth - missing on a night patrol, 7/8-08-1941, Runnymede 30
Sgt D. Wright - 610 Sqn - 21/8/41 - crashed in France, not in POW register
PO Zenker - 501 Sqn - 24/8/40 -Killed

This means that most of the names in your list, names that you did not find in the CWGC register, are accounted for. Still, several question marks remain.


Regards,


Rob

Re: Missing Fighter Command aircrew in FCL volumes
 

Gents,

Thanks again for your updates. Still a couple of gaps, but many answers provided. Thanks again.

Regards

Steve

As another question, anybody know a reason why 418 Sqn suffered significantly more casualties than any other Fighter Command unit? Obviously as an Intruder squadron with multi-crew aircraft, each loss would be heavier than for the loss of a single engine fighter, but even allowing for that they seem to have suffered far greatly losses than any other Intruder squadron.

Re: Missing Fighter Command aircrew in FCL volumes
 

Your Sgt. R. Hillman of 418 Squadron should be Sgt. A.J.R. Millman:

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_...sualty=2095741

He and his crew are buried in a small seaside town in France - one assumes they fell foul of coastal flak.

Perhaps you may be able to identify other typos by searching on dates in the CWGC via this truly staggering site:

http://www.hut-six.co.uk/cgi-bin/search39-47.php

As for 418 Squadron - they were flying Havocs and pretty much having to learn it for themselve. 23 Squadron were on Mosquitos by that point. Dave McIntosh and Doug Alcorn provide a certain amount of insight in their respective books.

As McIntosh says, 11 3-man crews were lost before a 418 Squadron crew scored a million-to-one shot by bombing an e/a as it was landing.

The American flyers on 157 Squadron were lost when their aircraft ditched in the Bay of Biscay due to engine failure.

Re: Missing Fighter Command aircrew in FCL volumes
 

Those looking for Canadians should also try this site:


http://www.ogsottawa.on.ca/MilitaryFAQ.php



Ed

Re: Missing Fighter Command aircrew in FCL volumes
 

Hi Steve,

A few more. Remaining puzzles:

PO Andrews -19 Sqn -27/6/41 - P/O. Sidney Rupert Andrews, MIA 26-06-1941, Runnymede Panel 31
Sgt Barclay -457 Sqn -27/4/42
Sgt Ford - 602 Sqn - 13/10/41 - perhaps Sgt. Clive Gordon Lord, RAAF 402127?
Sgt Gray - 611 Sqn - 3/7/43
PO Graham - 402 Sqn -27/9/41
PO Holland - 266 Sqn - 27/8/41
Sgt Hunter - 603 Sqn - 14/7/41
Sgt R.L. Sellers - 616 Sqn - 21/4/41 - Sgt. Robert Lindon Sellars, MIA 21-04-1941, Runnymede 51

Regards,

Rob

Re: Missing Fighter Command aircrew in FCL volumes
 

For Tibby read Tilby.
Kevin

Re: Missing Fighter Command aircrew in FCL volumes
 

Hello Steve,
This is the format of Norman Franks books. He writes them and the customer edits them.
Sgt RH Cochrane POW.
Sgt AE Gray POW.
Sgt AC Hunter POW.
Sgt KM Jones POW.
Roy

Re: Missing Fighter Command aircrew in FCL volumes
 

Hi,
P/O Cowley and Andrews of 19 Squadron became PoW's. P/O Cowley definately survived the war.
R. Henderson

Re: Missing Fighter Command aircrew in FCL volumes
 

I am carrying out research into 19 Squadron RAF. Does anybody know the first name and serial number of P/O Andrews, shot down on 27/6/41?
Many thanks,
Roger Henderson

Re: Missing Fighter Command aircrew in FCL volumes
 

Hallo Roger,

He was P/O Mervyn Frank Andrews 87655.
Sources: London Gazette online website and AIR 20/2336 POW lists.

He was commissioned on 4 November 1940 from the rank of Leading Aircraftsman. His enlisted service number was 903681. He was a Flight Lieutenant by early 1945.

Regards,

Martin Gleeson.

Re: Missing Fighter Command aircrew in FCL volumes
 

If you are looking for others then you can add Sgt Martin, 234 Sqn on 17th July 1941 to the list.

He was shot down in Spitfire P8395

Fighter Command Losses 1940-41 says missing but I understand he was made a POW