Brazilian fighter
 

Hi guys

I think this query may stump you all! I have no information.

At the beginning of May 1940, a Brazilian fighter engaged a patrolling Walrus amphibian from HMS Cornwall off the coast of Brazil.

Any idea as to what the Brazilian fighter may have been? And where would it have flown from?

Cheers
Brian

Re: Brazilian fighter
 

Hello Brian!
If you could tell me more precisely if it was on the North-East or South-South-East coast, I could trace for you the probable unit and kind of aircraft!
We do have more than 8,000km of coast...! However, at that time there were very few airbases on the country.
I am actually flying - very very far from home ( some 2,500km ) - but I do promiss you to have a check on some books I do possess, when I will be home.
Meanwhile, if you could tell me where actually the Walrus was intercepted; if it was a single engined fighter or a twin, it could help me enormously!
I will not forget you Brian, be sure of that - please wait more 10 days or so...
Yours
Adriano Baumgartner ( from Brazil )

Re: Brazilian fighter
 

Hi Adriano

Great news. I will see what more I can find to help you provide relevant information.

2,500km away from home, high in the sky! Wow! Do keep your eyes on the 'road' and watch out for those lady drivers!

Many thanks
Brian

Re: Brazilian fighter
 

Brian,

It appears that the only fighter Brazil had at that time was the Boeing Model 256 (F4B-4, or P-12).
Perhaps the Vought O2U Corsair scout plane is a candidate too....

HMS Cornwall returned 18 July 1940 at Gibraltar after her South Atlantic duties.

Nice question by the way. I hope Adriano can find something.

Regards,

Leendert

Re: Brazilian fighter
 

Thanks for that Leendert - we(I) learn all the time!

Adriano - the 'incident' occurred off PERNAMBUCO - the Walrus had intruded Brazlian waters. Hope this helps you pin down the unit/aircraft etc.

Cheers

Brian

(Are you flying the aircraft or are you a passenger?)

Re: Brazilian fighter
 

Leendert: You are, once more, very very well informed! I am astonished by your vast knowledge! Yes, our Air Force had those birds at that time, but ( I do not have my sources on hand now ); if I do remember correctly, they were based around Rio de Janeiro ( If my memory do not play tricks ).
However, I can guarantee you that there is a good book, in portuguese, with the main feats of our Air Force. I helped once a German Naval Historian ( very famous, Rohmler or Rohmer ) to find out the crew of a B-25 that had attacked a U-Boat around our coasts. This book provided a very good account and the names of all the crew! So, I guess I will have the information you are looking for.
PERNAMBUCO, as I was wondering, is on the NE of our Coast - the very probable place I thought the accident took place. I thought that it was around NATAL, further to the north, but RECIFE was and still is an Air Force Base, as well as Natal ( later used by USAAF, US Navy and Ferry Command Crews ).
Brian, I am actually flying as 1st Officer on Grand Caravans C-208B, with a Multinational Company that do Survey Flights. We are flying on the Amazon Area now, the main reason I am very very far away from home! I will return on the 25th, and will be able to check the book for you on the 26th.
I must remember that at that time, our NAVY had an indeppendent Air Force too. Later, in 1941, when our Air Force was instituted, all aircrafts were handed out to the Air Force. So, perhaps it was a Navy craft. Will have to check the book. Sorry!
Meanwhile, all the best for you and thanks for adding the correct place where the incident took place. It will be more easy now to find out the Air Bases and aircrafts around...
Friendly yours
Adriano

Re: Brazilian fighter
 

PS: I will try to scan and send you pictures of our F-2B and other aircrafts at that time. I do not know if our Air Force did preserve the records of all the Squadrons. I will try to find out, if the book do not give us the kind of information we are looking for...
Yours
Adriano

Re: Brazilian fighter
 

I´ve got some photos for you
Will post the information later
Cheers
Adriano

Re: Brazilian fighter
 

Brian,
The computer I am writting you do not have the latest version of the Word package. I will have to go home to send you the information about the 6th Air Regiment who flew at RECIFE. Unfortunately did not find out the name of aircrew involved, neither serial number of aircraft.
The photos scanned up there came from the book: "A História da Força Aérea Brasileira" by Tenente-Brigadeiro Lavenère-Wanderley.
Will post more info to you soon...
Adriano

Re: Brazilian fighter
 

Many thanks Adriano

So it was a Boeing P-12 of 6th Air Regiment flying from Recife airfield? Excellent information.

Cheers
Brian

Re: Brazilian fighter
 

Hi Brian! Sorry for the delay! Here´s the information I got:
"On 11th September 1933, by Ministerial Order, the 1st Navy´s Observation Flotille ( 1ª Flotilha de Observação ) was created with 12 Vought Corsair acft. The unit was divided in two Squadrons, 6 acft each one, based indenpendently at Rio de Janeiro and Santa Catarina ( SSE of Brazil ). Later this Observation Flotille was regrouped with the remaining Boeing P-12 fighters on a mixed Combat and Observation Group that was later finally disbanded in August 1940.
Brazilian System of Defense was then divided in 3 Air Spaces ( 3 Zonas Aéreas - in original portuguese ). The 1st Air Zone had its HQ at Rio de Janeiro and comprised the following Air Regiments ( Regimentos Aéreos ):
a) 1° Regimento de Aviação at Rio de Janeiro
b) 6° Regimento de Aviação at RECIFE ( Officer Commanding: Captain José Sampaio de Macedo ). Later this Regiment was transfered to FORTALEZA ( Ceará State )
c) 7° Regimento de Aviação at Belém ( PARÁ State ) who has amphibious aircrafts

On the 26th November 1935, a Communist small Revolution started up at RECIFE and Natal. Naval as well as Military Aviation took action against the insurgents ( military people also involved ) and 3 Vought Corsairs under the command of Captain José de Souza Prata flew missions against the Communists at RECIFE.

On pg 191 from the book of Air Marshall Nelson Freire Lavenère-Wanderley we do have this information: "On December 1939, Vought Corsair aircraft were dispatched as independent units to RECIFE and Belém airbases to fly recon and anti-sub patrols alongside Brazilian Territorial Waters".

This is the sole information I got, so probably the Corsairs came from the 6° Regimento de Aviação at RECIFE. However I do not know who was the OC at that time! I am enclosing some useful address to you here, although I do guess it is easier for me to got information at PRO at Kew or the Bundesarchiv than to get information on my own country about our Brazilian Air Force! You can try, however:
CECOMSAER
Centro de Comunicação Social da Aeronáutica
Esplanada dos Ministérios, Bloco M, 7° Andar
70045-900 Brasília-DF
BRAZIL
email: imprensa@fab.mil.br

They can inform you or send you information that I do not have in hands. Maybe you will be able to find the original 6° Regimento logbooks or records!
Best wishes and sorry for not finding the name of the crew involved on the incident!
Friendly yours
Adriano Baumgartner

Re: Brazilian fighter
 

Many thanks for the update, Adriano.

Your help has been excellent and I don't think I need to pursue this incident further.

Sincere thanks - and safe flying.
Cheers
Brian

Re: Brazilian fighter
 

Hello Brian!
I just saw your post and the answers now but i think i can help you. Firstly all data from Adriano are correct. therefore being a researcher of FAB in this historical period, I didn't found any trace of this episode in known archives. Although the Brazilian Aerospace Museum have a extensive archive they don't have a accessible online way to find so detailed information unless in person. But I have a contact with a former MUSAL director Brig. Araguarino, a passionate researcher and told about your topic. He promised me to find anything about as soon as possible. Believe me, if someone can find he's the man! So, let's give him some time.
By the way I am writing a book about Natal base that was the LARGEST US AAF/NAVY base outside american territory in WW2. Surprisingly few people know about this!
Best
Joao

Re: Brazilian fighter
 

Many thanks Joao

Your efforts are very much appreciated and I look forward to any additional information that may come to light.

Best wihes
Brian