Ju88 or Ju188 crashed in Normandy summer 1944
 

Dear All

I juste recieved a xerox copy of the xreck of a Ju 88 or Ju188 , crashed at Hondouville Normandy 10 km south south west of Louviers.

The crash occurs between D-day and 26 August 1944 (date of liberation of the town) . The witness did not remember clearly the exact date .

The machine wore a night operation camouflahes , a white balkenkreuz and the code A(outlined white) P (red or yellow)

And information is welcome , the owner of this photo is now 75 years old and saw the wrecks .

All the best

Eric Larger

Re: Ju88 or Ju188 crashed in Normandy summer 1944
 

A cursory check of my records has already come up with a number of +APs but for starters try 6/KG 30 3 Aug 44 which went missing near Caen 3 Aug 44. You really need to be more precise on date and or unit!

Re: Ju88 or Ju188 crashed in Normandy summer 1944
 

Hello Chris

This all I know , I had this copy of picture this week-end and the man did not remember clearer informations . You knwo all witnesses are very old now , and a lot of them do not have precise souvenirs , just flashes .

It did not happen near Caen , this Ju 88or 188 crashed between Louviers and Evreux (near Louviers ) it is far from the coast and Caen .

For me it coud be machines og KG6 ,or KG66 , because the spine of the fuelage is very light , probably a base of RLM76 + spots of RLM75 or 71

I will try to get more but it will be difficult

If someone as a list of JU88 or Ju 188 losses fior this period , I can probably eliminate easily the one whose crash locations do not correspond . The machine crashed ina astill ossupied part of Normandy before liberation .

Many thanks for the help

Eric

Re: Ju88 or Ju188 crashed in Normandy summer 1944
 

Hello Eric,

I'm living close to Hondouville and like you I do have copies of those pictures. Like you I never managed to identify this a/c but together we could try to do it... I will send you a PM

Regards

Loic

Re: Ju88 or Ju188 crashed in Normandy summer 1944
 

I have lists for all the bomber units but to discount ones would take too long when exact locations are not known and loss records incomplete

Re: Ju88 or Ju188 crashed in Normandy summer 1944
 

Just a note, that the locations in German loss returns of the period are frequently wrong and misleading. The note that the aircraft is missing at Caen area may just only mean that the intended target was the area, and the aircraft could have crashed several miles away.

Re: Ju88 or Ju188 crashed in Normandy summer 1944
 

Hello Franek

Yes I know for studying German losses for dozen years now, but his location is far far away from Caen .

Witnesses reported us that German troops were angry against the local population as one pistol of the 4 crews was missing when they found the bodies .

eric

Re: Ju88 or Ju188 crashed in Normandy summer 1944
 

Hi, any chance of seeing the pictures of the crashed aircraft please ?

Regards, Sean.

Re: Ju88 or Ju188 crashed in Normandy summer 1944
 

Eric
That is exactly what I mean, and this could still be the aircraft you are looking for.

Re: Ju88 or Ju188 crashed in Normandy summer 1944
 

Hi

I will try to find time to scan the xerox copy I have this evenig

This is curious that , in the same area , I cannot find any information on this other aricraft crashed on on 9 August 1944 at Louviers (10 km from the crash site of Ju188 or ju88 )

This is perhaps a Fw 190A-8/R8 crashed on a farm at 23:00 (French policie report) .You can easily recognize the big hole under the wings for the 30 mm empty chutes .

I have the picture at work so I attache then to this post .

Any information is wellcome ; SKG10 claim the los of of machine , this is all what I can find for the moment .

Eric

Re: Ju88 or Ju188 crashed in Normandy summer 1944
 

The only SKG 10 loss on that night was a 3 Staffel machine FW 190 F-8, 581251, Yellow 9 Uffz Georg Köppel Missing near Avranches; possibly shot down by Fg Off D Welfare/Fg Off D B Bellis of 239 Sqn, Ste Quentin, 0020 hrs

Would this match and I would like to know more about the source of the photo as my book on I/SKG 10 is soon to be published and if this is his aircraft, would like to talk about using it?

Re: Ju88 or Ju188 crashed in Normandy summer 1944
 

Hello Chris

The location is just under the straight line between Rosière en Santerre the base of SKG10 and AVranche /Caen Area . This is a possibility I have still evaluated . But What is sure is that the machine was shot down at 23:00 confiormed by the police report .

So would it be possible that there was a 2 hours gap between german/french time and English time ?

The witness ,a woman living in this farm saw the aircraft coming down in flames .

The photo were given to a man I know by the woman ,(at this date a girl) photographed near the aircraft . I have not seen this man since 1 year and , we planned to meet the family to get a better scan of the photos than these ones . But since 2 years nothing happened .

I do not have better quality photos .

I can try to contact him , and try to arrange a visit to the family , but is not near my house , so I have to plan it .

I have a remaining question I cannot solve , the hole seen in the wings is at the exact location of the 30 mm hole for empty chutes (A8/R8) and also near the location of the support of the underwings large tanks .

The damaged leading hedges do not permit to see the canon hole so ...

The underwing crosses are identical to the ones seen under other Fw 190G-8 of the group I know . But the Wnr could have been badly noted .


What kind of machine is it ?

The pilot was found the day after the crash (if my memory is correct) , in woods surrounding the town . He was burried in the cemetary , and perhaps moved after war .

What kind of machine is it ?

St Quentin can be a location near Rosières en Santerre but it is far from the crash site , but there are numerous other towns having this name ...

What is your degree of urgence ?

This all what i can say about this aircraft

Here is the photo of the Ju88/JU188 I was talking about

ALl the best

Eric

Re: Ju88 or Ju188 crashed in Normandy summer 1944
 

Eric
By Aug 44, I/SKG 10 was operating out of Tours. The aircraft looks too clean for an SKG 10 machine-no sign of distemper to tone down the markings. Time difference could be French/British but it tends to be the other way around-European time was later? Pehaps someone can comment on this. For the moment, as there is doubt, I will wait to find out if anyone knows more.
Definetely AP but still too many Ju 88s/188s!

Re: Ju88 or Ju188 crashed in Normandy summer 1944
 

I review some photos I have in French Book , the Fw 190G-8 are not so dirty, perhaps these pictures were taken onn earl days on French Front .


It we consider it is A FW 190A-8/R8 , few units used some in France , my opinion is that is it a machine unserviceable of IV./JG3 base in June at Dreux , ferried later to his home airfield .

Who knows , the pilot is unidentified .

Yes there were a lot of Ju 88/Ju 188 shot down ,The man who gave me this xerox should look at his diary , if he noted the date

Eric

Re: Ju88 or Ju188 crashed in Normandy summer 1944
 

Eric,

These photos do not show Ju 88 / 188. One photo clearly shows the wing had split flap (i.e. unbroken upper surface inside of the aileron), whereas the Ju 88 / 188 did not. Othervise I think all these show an Fw 190. (The baby gives the wing an larger appearance than it really is.)

cheers
ed

Re: Ju88 or Ju188 crashed in Normandy summer 1944
 

Hello

5 photos depict a Fw 190 A crashed at Louviers , and one in another post a Ju 88 /188 , crashed 10 km from this town

Eric

Re: Ju88 or Ju188 crashed in Normandy summer 1944
 

Yes, I realize (failed to open Page2 of this thread and was really only answering the first), but, yes, the Ju 188 photo seems familiar. I may have same or similar, somewhere in backup file (still recovering from hard disc crash).

Re: Ju88 or Ju188 crashed in Normandy summer 1944
 

Found it. Definately same (same surrondings) but taken much closer to the fuselage and code. Image was sold on eBay around 21.07.2005.

Re: Ju88 or Ju188 crashed in Normandy summer 1944
 

Here it is. Not really 100% shure which version, Ju 88 S-3 or Ju 188. Camoflage is like Bomber units, so could be A-4 as well.

cheers
ed

Re: Ju88 or Ju188 crashed in Normandy summer 1944
 

Having looked at the loss lists inthe books on KG2, KG6 and KG54 there does not appear to be a loss that ties with this Ju88/188. 6/KG6 has several losses in the period with place unknown and crew missing, which would not be the case if the aircraft came down in German Territory. No NVM that ties into KG66 who I believe did not operate a 6th Staffel . In the period would most Ju188's be more likely to operate with a four man crew, Eric mentions four killed.
Hope this one gets sorted out

Re: Ju88 or Ju188 crashed in Normandy summer 1944
 

Hello,

I don't think that these pictures are sold on ebay because the owner of the pic is still alive and have his pictures. I had already posted three pictures of this aircraft on this forum before and another forum so it's certainly it. As Eric I know the source from this picture.

Regards

Loic

Re: Ju88 or Ju188 crashed in Normandy summer 1944
 

My apologies, seems I have then picked it up from another thread (but wrongly saved into an eBay folder). Looking at the type of fuselage insignia, I whould opt for Ju 88 A-4 (or S-3 but time frame rather early for these, if it crashed into German held territory in June/July/early August) but the Ju 188 more often had narrow type of fuselage cross.

Re: Ju88 or Ju188 crashed in Normandy summer 1944
 

Hello,

Here attached the pictures about the unknown German aircraft that Eric spoken. Aircraft crashed in Hondouville during summer 1944. Any help are appreciated to identify this ship.

Regards

Loic

Re: Ju88 or Ju188 crashed in Normandy summer 1944
 

Bonjour Eric,j'écris en Français j'ai moi même la photo avec la petite fille qui vient des archives de Louviers parvenant de Mme Dequatremare rue de Baulieu ou l'avion est tombé.Je sais part des gens qu'elle avait gardée l'élice mais il ma pas été possible sur place de cotoyer avec les gens à la maison.

Re: Ju88 or Ju188 crashed in Normandy summer 1944
 

Guys!! i am totally new to this forum and i am sitting here searching info on a guy called Willi Kuhn, i have all his citation awards and in the description it says this.

His last mission will be the 6th of June 1944 when Kuhn's JU88 during bombings of the invasion fleet is shot down over Lion sur Mer. Kuhn is reported KIA but is sole survivor of the crew and ends the war as a British POW


I would LOVE to see that crash photo!!!!!!

Re: Ju88 or Ju188 crashed in Normandy summer 1944
 

Hey guys, i have an urkunde grouping to a guy who wen't down in that location
He flew his last mission 6th of june 1944 in JU88, he was bombing the invasion fleet, but was shot down over Lion sur Mer, he was reported KIA, but is the sole survivor and end the war as a british POW

Re: Ju88 or Ju188 crashed in Normandy summer 1944
 

Hello to all,
Continuing the request of the late Eric Larger, a new picture about this Ju88/Ju188 (with a little different point of view) appeared to me. We are able to see a part of the WerkNummer and I can do confirm for sure that all the 4 crew members were killed. The exact date is not known but is more accurate and it would be August 1944. The crash is situated at Hondouville, around 10-15 km from Evreux, Normandy.
Here attached the view of the WkNr and the new pic.

After some researches I found one candidate, but is it the good one ?

Ju-88 S3 WkNr 330812 Stab II./KG30 AD+AP, place unknown, 13 Aug 1944

Any comments are welcome, thanks in advance, best regards.

Loic

Re: Ju88 or Ju188 crashed in Normandy summer 1944
 

I think it might be 330803 and dark object masking first letter

Ju 88 S-3 [4D+AP] II/KG 30 (Luftwaffe)
OPS (F) missing (100%) 03.08.1944 [NVM]

other 330812
Ju 88 S-3 [4D+AP] II/KG 30 (Luftwaffe)
OPS (F) missing (100%) 13.08.1944 [NVM]

Re: Ju88 or Ju188 crashed in Normandy summer 1944
 

Thanks Ed for your suggestion,
330803 seems to be more correct than 330812 according to the rudder.

Do you have the crew for the 330803 ?

I found for 330812 as :

Lt Joachim Heyer (flugzeugführer)
Uffz Rolf Uhlstein (bordfunker)
Obgfr Willi Weiser (bordschütze)
Gefr Hermann Meinecke

Crew buried in Champigny/Saint-André.

So both these a/c had the same fuselage code ?

Regards
thanks again
Loic