Heinkel III IG+HL. Crashed Eire 3.3.41
 

Re: Heinkel III IG+HL. Crashed Eire 3.3.41
 

According to cronicle by W. Waiss a/c was operating from Brest/Morgat

He 111 H-5 W.Nr. 3664 1G+HL from 3. Staffel/K.G. 27
FF Heinzl, Alfred
BO Voigt, Arthur
BF Hengst, Rudolf
BM Rister, Gerd
BS Galler, Max

Re: Heinkel III IG+HL. Crashed Eire 3.3.41
 

Hi Rich

On pages 52-53 of "Guests of the State" (Brandon, 1994), Irish historian T. Ryle Dwyer writes, "The next belligerent plane to arrive made deliberately for Ireland on 3 March 1941. Viennese Leutnant Alfred Heinzl's Heinkel 111 bomber had been hit during an attack on an Allied convoy in the Atlantic. On engine had been knocked out , the other damaged and the 23-year-old rear gunner, Gefreiter Gerd Rister, shot dead. They had been able to put out a fire in the rear of the aircraft but had no hope of returning to their base in France. When the navigator, Feldwebel Athur Voigt, explained they would have to choose between landing in Britain or Ireland, the choice was straightforward.

"All we knew was that Ireland was supposed to be neutral so we opted for there," Voigt recalled. "I picked out a spot in Co. Wexford and we limped in our battered aircraft towards it." It was three o'clock in the afternoon when the plane landed with its wheels up at Rostoonstown.

The four surviving crew members immediately alighted, dismantled a machine-gun from the turret and removed Rister's body. They walked about a hundred yards into the sand dunes and began firing on the plane. As some local people approached, the crew warned them to take cover because the plane was about to blow up. Suddenly there was a loud explosion and bits of the plane went hurtling into the air. Heinzl, Voigt and their two comrades, Gefreiter Maximillian Galler and Feldwebel Rudolf Hengst, were taken into custody and interned in the Curragh with the minimum of delay."

I hope this is a help

Guests of the State is out of print but you can (I could) obtain a copy on Abebooks, and Dwyer is currently a political correspondent with the "The Examiner" in Cork city.

Regards
Steve

Re: Heinkel III IG+HL. Crashed Eire 3.3.41
 

Hello Pawel and Steve, Many thanks fellas for your input here. I knew the Irish Heinkel was one of two aircraft involved in a shipping strike on 3 March 1941, as you say in the Western approaches. They both came off badly. The other a/c was coded IG+AL, and crashed on Lundy Island where the crew gave themselves up to the lighthousekeeper, a gentleman by the name of Felix Gade. (can you imagine the scene - he must have been terrified to have four German crew for company). Anyway, I have the 'k' reports and statements made by two survivors from that crew, but had no idea (until now) what happened to the other a/c, or who the crewmembers were. Your information fills in a few details which is helpful. Incidently the guys taken POW on Lundy ended up in Canada. I wonder what happened to the Irish internees ? Anyway, thanks once again, your information is much appreciated gentlemen. Atb, rich :o)

Re: Heinkel III IG+HL. Crashed Eire 3.3.41
 

Hi, guys

This is how the GenQu reported these losses.

Apparently both wireless operaters notified the home base that they were attacked by fighter aircraft and indicated their intended emergency landing sites:

http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=113493

http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=113494

Regards,
Andreas B

Re: Heinkel III IG+HL. Crashed Eire 3.3.41
 

Thanks Andreas for your info. I have Botchers and Bongers handwritten personal accounts of the Lundy incident, which mentions these guys thought they had reached the Scillies, but I didn't know they'd managed to radio a message back detailing their estimated position. All good stuff filling in gaps in the story.

So, from the convoy attack - they must have figured they were headed South East whereas actually they clearly headed due East. An error in navigation is forgivable I suppose, particularly when your a/c's engines are about to pack up..

Re: Heinkel III IG+HL. Crashed Eire 3.3.41
 

Hello all, hope I can add a little more.
Ernst Lorra was the pilot of the Heinkel 1G+LH which force landed at Co Waterford later, on 1 April 1941.
It was during the second attack on the vessel Port Townsville that Lt. Heinzl's aircraft 1G+HL was hit by fire from the ships and not by aircraft. I can confirm that Rudolf Hengst did send off two messages and also sent a message to 1G+AL but was not aware of its fate.
They had great difficulty in setting fire to the aircraft including soaking their parachutes in petrol and setting them on fire. It was not until Arthur Voigt fired at it and as explained by Rudi Hengst that it exploded and "got airborne once more".
After the war Freddie Heinzl, Arthur Voigt and Rudi Hengst married Irish women (the latter two to sisters) and lived in Ireland (Hengst for a short time ) Heinzl became part of the gliding community in Ireland and was an accomplished pilot.
HTH
Tony K

Re: Heinkel III IG+HL. Crashed Eire 3.3.41
 

Hi Tony - thanks - any of 'em still with us do you know ?

Re: Heinkel III IG+HL. Crashed Eire 3.3.41
 

You are welcome Richard, sadly all have since passed on, but at least was in touch with Voigt and Hengst for a brief period.
Regards
Tony K

Re: Heinkel III IG+HL. Crashed Eire 3.3.41
 

Hi Tony, Sorry to hear that. Sadly we lose a few more each year. However, that fact alone means the work of so many dedicated people on this forum is all the more worthwhile.

Atb, richard

Re: Heinkel III IG+HL. Crashed Eire 3.3.41
 

Hello! Just came across this forum while searching for info on my father (Arthur Voigt) and thought it would be interesting to register and maybe swap some facts with others. He documented his account of his involvement in WW2 from just before the attack on Poland until his repatriation from Ireland in 1945. Looking forward to hearing from someone. Arthur Voigt (jr)

Re: Heinkel III IG+HL. Crashed Eire 3.3.41
 

Hallo Arthur,

Welcome to the forum. I, like several others including Dennis Burke, Pat Cummins and especially Tony Kearns have been researching the wartime crashes and forced landings in Ireland for many years. I recall seeing your father years ago on a programme about the war and the interned airmen.

Have you checked out the two files on this landing in the Military Archives in Dublin ? You might also as a family member be able to view his personal file there, but I would not be 100% sure.

Did your father write anything about the time he was shot down on 10 May 1940 and his subsequent capture ?

Regards for now,

Martin Gleeson.

Re: Heinkel III IG+HL. Crashed Eire 3.3.41
 

Hi
Anyone know the time/area the a/c was attacked by the fighter or which raf squadron it was ?
cheers
Jerry

Re: Heinkel III IG+HL. Crashed Eire 3.3.41
 

Hi Jerry,
Heinkel III 1G+HL was not attacked by aircraft, see post no. 7 and this was confirmed to me by both Arthur Voigt (Bo) and Rudi Hengst (Bf) years ago. The force landing time in Ireland was 14.45 hrs (Irish Time) and the area was the south coast of Wexford on the beach.
Regards,
Tony K

Re: Heinkel III IG+HL. Crashed Eire 3.3.41
 

Yes, I have his detailed account of the mission and the subsequent shooting down of his aircraft. From his version the hit came from machine gun fire and anti-aircraft fire from the ship and /or a seperate naval vessel. Will post a synopsis of the event if you want.

Re: Heinkel III IG+HL. Crashed Eire 3.3.41
 

Re: Heinkel III IG+HL. Crashed Eire 3.3.41
 

Will do.... might take a day or two but I will transcribe his account and include as much historical info as I have on the event.

Re: Heinkel III IG+HL. Crashed Eire 3.3.41
 

Some background notes to be getting on with.....

Herbert Arthur Voigt
Born: Leipzig, Saxony, 24th Apr. 1915
Only child of Emily & Paul Voigt (kia near Rennes, 1915)
Joined “100, 000 man army (infantry battalion) 1934
Transferred to Luftwaffe, Hildesheim & Oldenburg , promoted to Unteroffizier.
1938- joined Navigation Training School (Fasberg)
Transferred to squadron (think it was kg 27) mid-June, 100 km south of Hamburg.
Aug. 1939 transferred to Sylt .
1st Sept. 1939 – attacked airfield Okeczie, south of Warsaw from Neukuhren.
Jan , 1940, squadron moved to Muenster.
10th May 1940, HE111 D shot down by Spitfire and wounded over Lille, France; crash-landed , Belgium. POW , Dunkirk.
4th June, 1940, freed by German troops.
Nov. 1940, rejoined squadron near Tours (Morgat), Battle of Britain.
Feb. 1941 – squadron transferred to Brest, (convoys- Atlantic)
3rd. March 1941- shot down over St. George’s Channel, crash-landed Rostoonstown beach, Co. Wexford, Ireland.
Interned, Curragh Military Camp, Co. Kildare for Duration of WW 2.
Repatriated to Russian Zone , Germany after war.
Escaped from E. Germany 1949, settled in Co. Kildare, Ireland, married, 2 children.
Passed away 6th Jan, 1994.

Re: Heinkel III IG+HL. Crashed Eire 3.3.41
 

Arthur: Of interest, does he mention missions flown against mainland UK Nov 40-Feb 41 as opposed to anti-shipping ops?

Re: Heinkel III IG+HL. Crashed Eire 3.3.41
 

Yes, he describes his first mission after he recovered from his wounds (Lille and Dunkirk). This was to the Bristol channel (Avonmouth). As best I can determine it was immediately after Xmas 1940. They left their base (3 kg 24 Boelcke) at 18.45 , instructed to fly at 4200m , head for Cherbourg, reach the English coast near Exeter and leave Cardiff on their right. 8 He111's left on that mission, their plane 2nd last. They placed canvas over the lower part of the cockpit (presumably to prevent light escaping). The taget had already been illuminated by incendiaries. Bombs were dropped and immediately they "U" turned and headed back to Tours.Over the next few weeks he flew missions to London, Manchester & Birmingham without any incident. Tthat's all I have I'm afraid! He was transferred to Brest in early 41.

Re: Heinkel III IG+HL. Crashed Eire 3.3.41
 

Arthur: I am working on a book on Luftwaffe bomber operations during the Blitz so should be able to work out the dates for you. I will get back in touch when I have done so if that is of use to you.
Thanks
Chris

Re: Heinkel III IG+HL. Crashed Eire 3.3.41
 

A quick check shows that I/KG 27 bombed Avonmouth between 2240-2325 hrs on 4-5 Jan 41, Manchester 2353-0015 hrs on 9-10 Jan 41

Re: Heinkel III IG+HL. Crashed Eire 3.3.41
 

Thanks, Chris. would welcome this as this is the one area of my father's memoirs that is very sketchy.

Re: Heinkel III IG+HL. Crashed Eire 3.3.41
 

Arthur, Chris,
Arthur snr. told me that he did not get his log books back after repatriation, so he could not give dates for operations. He did mention ops to Avonmouth, Manchester, Birmingham and London but wirhout details.
On the other hand Rudi Hengst gave the date for Bristol 3/4 Jan 1941 take of 22.00 hrs Tours. On approaching Bristol they could see the fires started by KG100. He did not mention other ops. Something that Arthur Voigt did not mention was of an accident whilst landing at Tours and from what Hengst said it would appear to have been a write off (losing a wing) the date was 10 Feb 1941 He 111 1G+HL. The same identification as the incident 3 March 1941. Perhaps someone could confirm if this information is correct or is it all from memory.
Tony K

Re: Heinkel III IG+HL. Crashed Eire 3.3.41
 

Major I/KG 27 ops in Jan 41 were:
Cardiff-2-3 Jan
Bristol - 3-4 Jan
Avonmouth - 4-5 Jan
Manchester 9-10 Jan
Portsmouth 10-11 Jan
London 11-12 Jan
Plymouth 13-14 Jan
Avonmouth 16-17 Jan

In respect of 3-4 Jan, KGr 100 were preceded by II/KG 55, I/KG 1, KG 77 and I/KG 26

Re: Heinkel III IG+HL. Crashed Eire 3.3.41
 

Thanks Chris - fills in the gaps nicely!! I am trying to sift through the info I have on the convoy attacks in early 41. There seems to be some disagreement on HE 11 bomb loads. My father's accounts suggest that the 4 X 250 kg. bombs were standard on their missions, however other sources suggest that there was an extra 500 kg. bomb suspended under the starboard wing. From numerous conversations I had with him this was never mentioned. I know that maximum fuel capacity was of prime concern, also the addition of a 20mm cannon to suppliment the machine guns (although apparently the general consensus was that the cannon was little better than useless). There is an account of his last mission which suggests that the larger bomb was the one dropped on the Port Townsville. Can anyone help here?

Re: Heinkel III IG+HL. Crashed Eire 3.3.41
 

Tony, have checked as best I can on the loss on 10th Feb. There is mention of a plane crashing into a wooden building on return in bad fog, killing all crew and those sleeping in the building at Tours sometime in Jan/Feb. This may be the plane Hengst was talking about as it is unlikely that such damage to a plane would allow it to be repaired for flight in mid Feb. to Brest. There seems to be more than a few differences in accounts given by Voigt & Hengst which are causing me extra work!

Re: Heinkel III IG+HL. Crashed Eire 3.3.41
 

Martin, I only noticed now that you requested info on 10th May, 40 not 3rd Mar. 41!! My apologies - My father's account of his crash on May 10th runs to 70 odd pages. I will give you a brief account for the moment , if you want clarification on anything later you can let me know.

The mission was a dawn attack on an airfield near Lille, France. They left Muenster (9 machines) and headed west for the Dutch border. Having passed over Arnhem and Rotterdam they turned south and then east into Belgium (over Ostende) , then on to Lille. Just as the bombload was dropped the plane was hit twice from the rear by a Spitfire. Both engines were disabled, radio operator killed. mechanic wounded and voigt wounded in shoulder, neck and mouth. Pilot was the only crew member uninjured. He managed to crash land the plane in Belgium. Belgian police took the survivors to a nearby town (Lens) where they were kept in custody (seperated). Next day, Voigt was taken to a hospital in Mons and had a bullet removed from his mouth. He never saw the mechanic again. Next day he was taken to Brussels and following that transported by hospital train westwards to Ostende (due to advancing German forces). From there he was moved by train (in cattle wagons) to Dunkirk along with hundreds of other POWs. After a week in this train in Dunkirk they were all moved to ships (used as prisons) in Dunkirk harbour. He was renuited with his pilot on this ship but after some days of shelling by German artilary on the harbour, the ship took a direct hit. As all the POWs were lying in the hold together both men either side of Voigt were killed, one the pilot. Voigt took severe shrapnel wounds to his lower left leg. Survivors were then taken to a hospital near the beach in Durkirk where he witnessed the evacuation of British troops to England. He was finally freed by German troops on June 4th. He was taken home to a hospital in Leipzig to recover. Voigt rejoined his squadron in Tours in Nov. 40. Of the 9 planes departing Muenster that morning (May 10th) only 6 returned. Two other crews were sent to Canada as POWs. Most of the returning planes were damaged.

Re: Heinkel III IG+HL. Crashed Eire 3.3.41
 

Hallo Arthur,

Thank you for posting that very interesting information. There is more often then not a much more gripping story behind the dry facts, and such is the case here.

70 pages is very impressive. I am sure the EAGLES OVER EUROPE team should be interested. Did you ever think of writing a book on your father's life ?

By the way there are photos of two of your father's crew on 10 May 1940 in THE BATTLE OF FRANCE, THEN AND NOW by Peter Cornwell (2008), an excellent work on the campaign in the west during May/June 1940.

Regards,

Martin.

Re: Heinkel III IG+HL. Crashed Eire 3.3.41
 

Yes, Martin, it has crossed my mind many times. That is why I'm keen to get as much detail as I can. I am not interested in writing a war story. My father hated the war and had nightmares of that time in Dunkirk until the day he died. I believe if such a book is in me it will be as factual as I can make it and hopefully do a little service to the millions who died during that trerrible time.

Re: Heinkel III IG+HL. Crashed Eire 3.3.41
 

Arthur
The landing accident that I was referring to did not involve loss of life or injury but from the description of the incident certainly suggested that the aircraft was a write off. I agree that there are more than a few differences in the accounts given by your Dad and Rudi Hengst. I will check my notes further, one thing I have difficulty in resolving is the date when the crew which landed in Ireland actually came together as a crew
Regards
Tony K

Re: Heinkel III IG+HL. Crashed Eire 3.3.41
 

Tony , the new crew was put together at Xmas 1940. The Captain decided to mix some old hands with the newcomers. Alfred Heinzel (pilot) was new to the staffel. Voigt, Hengst and Rister were all of kg 27 but had not flown together before. This crew was together during the battle of Britain. When they were transferred to Brest the rear gunner Max Galler was added to the crew as the compliment was increased from 4 to 5 to provide more firepower. During that fateful day on 3rd Mar 41 Gerd Rister (mechanic) went to the rear of the plane to fix Galler's machine gun which had jammed and subsequently suffered 2 fatal gunshot wounds in the back during the second attack on the ship.

Re: Heinkel III IG+HL. Crashed Eire 3.3.41
 

Thank you Arthur for that, I know that Freddie Heinzel made his firrst mission on 21 December 1940 to Liverpool. From what you say this appears to be the date the crew came together.
Regards
Tony K