Me 109 G Photograph
 

Just spotted this on another forum:

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=87077

It may be of interest to some here. Had personallynever seen this picture before.

Re: Me 109 G Photograph
 

A very nice photo.

It's WNr.15110, an ex G-4/trop if I may add.


Happy New Year to all,
Tomislav

Re: Me 109 G Photograph
 

Hi, guys

Here is what I have on this:

http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=134803

Regards,
Andreas B

Re: Me 109 G Photograph
 

And what happened to the pilot?

Re: Me 109 G Photograph
 

Hi.

From the information in the thread I would assume he was apprehended and made a POW.

Regards,
Andreas B

Re: Me 109 G Photograph
 

I have rather meant his post-war career, though it is interesting the conduct towards such deserters.

Re: Me 109 G Photograph
 

Hi, Franek

Happy New Year btw!

Would be very interesting both to see how he was treated by the brits, and also what happened to him after the war.

My guess is that he was apprehended, interrogated and put into a camp in Canada and just told to shut up about the defection altogether. After the war I would assume he did the same as millions of others - got on with his life and just kept his mouth shut about what he did during the war. But as you say, it would be very interesting to know.

I wonder if he was related to the other Karl Wimberger.. honorary citizen of Vienna and owner of a rather well known hotel there.

Regards,
Andreas B

Re: Me 109 G Photograph
 

Happy New Year, indeed!
Well, I know only of Poles, who were forcefully drafted into German army, and deserted to join Polish forces, so those are completely different cases. Interestingly, there was at least one successful attempt to desert by Ju 52, that was claimed by British ace but not credited to him because Poles on board were going to land anyway. At least that was the story given by Shores in Aces High, but I do not have any details.

Re: Me 109 G Photograph
 

There were some extraordinary defections. On 9 September 1943 Lt Josef Thurner of JG 77 flew over from northern Italy and deliberately force landed in Gorski Kotar area in what is today Croatia, near the village of Klana - his birthplace, and joined the XI Partisan Corps. He fought with them until the end of the war and later settled in Zagreb.
What is interesting is that he is listed as MIA on 5 January 1944 and the Yugoslav documents are clear about the date being 9 September 1943.

Re: Me 109 G Photograph
 

Oh, I have heard of German Stuka pilot who defected to Polish partisans and fought with them until his death in August 1944. I was unable to find any details of his service though.

Re: Me 109 G Photograph
 

There were defections to the opposite side, too.
E.g., two Rumanian Bf 109 pilots defected to the German side as late as March 1945.
I guess, to some it was better to be a prisoner with the Germans than serving the Soviets...

Re: Me 109 G Photograph
 

Two did defect on Me 109s to Yugoslavia in early 1950s, did not they?

Re: Me 109 G Photograph
 

There were some extraordinary defections. On 9 September 1943 Lt Josef Thurner of JG 77 flew over from northern Italy and deliberately force landed in Gorski Kotar area in what is today Croatia, near the village of Klana - his birthplace, and joined the XI Partisan Corps. He fought with them until the end of the war and later settled in Zagreb.
What is interesting is that he is listed as MIA on 5 January 1944 and the Yugoslav documents are clear about the date being 9 September 1943.

I wonder how he knew about the right area to land ???
Seems to occured during a transit flight from Rumania to Italy
in january 44 the III.JG77 was in Siena but it is stated that they arrived at Isola San Antonia near Turkey on 10.sept. 43..
, what are your sources Boris ??

Remi

Re: Me 109 G Photograph
 

Further to III.JG77 , no losses reported for their stay in San antonia, from 9.sept to 23.Sept , maybe Andreas hv some more ???

Remi

Re: Me 109 G Photograph
 

Hi Remi,

my source is Thurner's personal file sent to 1st Aviation Base of Yugoslav Peoples Liberation Army (from Military Archive in Belgrade), where he was deployed in autumn of 1943. The file states that he was a member of Luftwaffe for two years and several fighter schools that he finished, that he defected with Me 109G but does not mention he was a member of JG 77. However there is a person with same name and rank from JG 77 which disappeared over Yugoslavia on 5 January 1944 during a ferry flight from Roumania to Italy so I established a connection (I might be wrong however).
He was born in Klana on 11 November 1922 and I suppose he knew the area very well and knew where to land. It is a rural area with small population where most of people knew each other, he was local and knew the language, so he should not have encountered any problems when confronted by local partisans. He is described as "advanced" in ideological sense so it is even possible that he had some sort of earlier connection with the communists.
And small correction, the exact date of defection is 10 September 1943.

Re: Me 109 G Photograph
 

Yes, they did, but that's another story.

Re: Me 109 G Photograph
 

OT: Pardon me, Boris, but how could this be a life insurance against partisans? He was still an ethnic German wearing a Luftwaffe (sorry, "Nazi") uniform. We know of many cases that e.g. Rumanian airmen wearing own uniform and speaking the local language (including colourful swearing) were almost beaten to death by the locals thinking that they were Soviet spies.
Or, something else. Wasn't an ethnic German automatically guilty to Tito's Communist partisans and potential candidate for summary execution?

Re: Me 109 G Photograph
 

Not necessarily. It was a bit riskier for an ethnic German, of course. But, for instance, more than 70 Gottscheer Germans joined the Partisans in southern Slovenia and there were also many Wehrmacht defectors (who simply went to the woods while on leave).

Re: Me 109 G Photograph
 

I got your point but he simply got away with it. How exactly I don't know. As far as I know there were no serious atrocities in this area by that time, which by the way was a part of Italy, and Italy capitulated a day earlier. Had he landed in an area controlled by Montenegrian or Herzegowinian partisans I assume he wouldn't have a chance to explain his intentions...

Re: Me 109 G Photograph
 

oi!

Just short notice about Josef Thurner. I went today to registry office and found that Josef Thurner or Josip Vladimir was born on 11. February 1922 in Klana.
Later found some old people from Klana. Thay remember that he come with plane near Klana. I found also some familly members that know more things and I will visit them in next few days....

good night
Radovan

Re: Me 109 G Photograph
 

What about the failed attempts? I was thinking about the pilot who tried to defect witha Ju-88 and ended up ditching the aircraft in Norwegian waters (?) The plane was retrieved some years ago.
There was also the case of the Dutch pilot (with a German wife) who defected with Fw-190A-8 in 1944