S-ST Go 242
 

I have a krew, missed at 06.09.42 in Kalamaki (Go 242)

FF. Uffz. Horst Blume, BO. Gfr. Werner Eilet, BM. Ogfr. Anton Herricht

Any Information about the unit ?

S-ST Go 242
 

Hello Byron

I can only add this:

6 September 1942: He 111 (W.Nr. 7508) of S.-Staffel/Go 242 crash-landing at Kalamaki due to bad weather, 90% damage, crew wounded. The crew is as you have them. I hope that this helps for what it is worth.

Horrido!

Leo

Re: S-ST Go 242
 

Thanks Leo,

but ... I never heard of this unit (Staffel).
Was the whole name Seestaffel Go 242 ? Did this Staffel belong to a larger Gruppe or formation ? Since when in GR ?

questions, questions

S-ST Go 242
 

Hello Byron

Unfortunately I really can not help you with this particular unit. I do not see it listed among the various Go 242 staffeln listed at http://www.ww2.dk/air/transport/minor.html. However, could it have been Sonderstaffel/Go 242? I believe that there was a unit with this designation perhaps temporarily formed for special or emergency duties. Hopefully someone else with greater knowledge of Luftwaffe transport units can clarify the staffel involved.

Horrido!

Leo

Re: S-ST Go 242
 

thank you Leo, I understand,

I have the book "die deutschen Transportflieger im zweiten Weltkrieg" writen by Fritz Morzik-Gerhard Hümmelchen, a very good one, but unfortunately nothing about this Staffel is refered there.

Generally, the transport units haven`t been researched thoroughly till now.

Re: S-ST Go 242
 

I would say, the the S means Schlepp-Staffel.
This is the unit what tow the Glider Go 242.

Dirk

Re: S-ST Go 242
 

During this time there was a department of I./LL.G 1 in Greece

06.42-09.42 Tatoi (ein Teil, genannt „Einsatzgruppe I./LLG 1“ flog die Brigade Ramcke nach Afrika)


Is it possible that this crew belonged to this Einsatzgruppe?

Re: S-ST Go 242
 

Hello,


A bit a late reply, but also active in that area during the named time was the:

1. Go. / VK(S) 2
2. Go. / VK(S) 2

The named part of the I./ LLG 1 (Hauptmann Krug) was indeed also active in the same area, but there where only Ju 52's without any gliders. So this Go 242 could not have belonged towards that unit.

I think the named Go 242 belonged towards the 1. Go./VK(S) 2, as this unit was certainly at Athen-Kalamaki during september 1942.

Cordial greetings,

Re: S-ST Go 242
 

The unit concerned is most definitely Verbindungskommando (S) 2, which was formed June 1942 at Hildesheim with 4 Staffeln: 1 (DFS), 2 (DFS), 1 (Go) and 2 (Go). How's that for some strange numbering? No period after the Staffel numbers (i.e., 1., 2., 1., 2.). Toward the end of June, Verb.Kdo. (S) 2 began moving to Lecce in south Italy which remained its home base in the Mediterranean until December 1942. Its four Staffeln operated all over the theater, including from Athens-Kalamaki as mission assignments dictated. It was responsible for transporting supplies to Rommel's forces as they advanced across Cyrenaica toward Egypt. Many of its tow aircraft (Ju 87s and Hs 126s) and its DFS and Gotha gliders had to be blown up at Sollum, Tobruk, El Quasaba, Gambit, Halfaya Pass and Bomba between 8 and 11 November 1942 to prevent them falling into the hands of the enemy. From January to June 1943, it hauled men and supplies to Sardinia from the Italian mainland and was then disbanded in June 1943.

The history of this unit is covered in Georg Schlaug's fine study of the Luftwaffe glider units, Die deutschen Lastensegler-Verbände 1937-1945: Eine Chronik aus Berichten, Tagebüchern, Dokumenten. Stuttgart: Motorbuch Verlag, 1985. ISBN: 3-613-01065-8. Hb. Dj. 296p. Illus. Maps. Appendices. Glossary of abbreviations. Bibliography.

L.

Re: S-ST Go 242
 

That`s a fine description Larry, hier some of the selfdestroied planes you mentioned

11.11.42 Ju 87 (W.Nr. 6261) 100% von eigener Truppe zerstört, Tobruk,
11.11.42 Ju 87 (W.Nr. 6260) 100% von eigener Truppe zerstört, Schlepper, Tobruk,
11.11.42 He 126 (W.Nr. 3237) 100% von eigener Truppe zerstört, Schlepper, Tobruk,
11.11.42 Go 242 (W.Nr. 401) 100% von eigener Truppe zerstört, Schlepper, Tobruk,
11.11.42 DFS 230 (W.Nr. 227603) 100% von eigener Truppe zerstört, Tobruk,
11.11.42 He 126 (W.Nr. 4197) 100% von eigener Truppe zerstört, Schlepper, Bomba,
11.11.42 DFS 230 (W.Nr. 227596) 100% von eigener Truppe zerstört, Bomba,
11.11.42 He 126 (W.Nr. 3480) 100% von eigener Truppe zerstört, Schlepper, Derna

But are the following losses from the same unit too?

22.08.42Verb.Kdo. (S) 4, Go 242 (W.Nr. 0589) 100% Notlandung See in derBucht Neo Phaliron
02.10.42 Verb.Kdo. (S) 4, Go 242 (W.Nr. 0141) 100% Bruchlandung Fl.Pl. Kalamaki, Besatzung unverletzt


Does that (S4) mean Staffel 2 (Go) ?


b.

Re: S-ST Go 242
 

I don't know, Byron. Verb.Kdo. (S) 4 was assigned to Luftflotte 4 in South Russia and all of the 20+ losses I have noted for it were in that area. I have no record of the 22.08.42 loss or the 02.10.42 loss under either Verb.Kdo. (S) 2 or (s) 4.

L.

Re: S-ST Go 242
 

I agree with you Larry,

Verb.Kdo. (S) 4 was assigned to Luftflotte 4 in South Russia. Maybe some of the gliders were used for transports via Greece to Africa, i cant give an other explanation.
I found the two losses of 22.08.42 and 02.10.42 in Qu.M. returns

b.

Re: S-ST Go 242
 

Hello Byron,

Just to add. I came across a pic which shows a G0 242 (?) half sunk at the Phaliro Bay .In the past i came across other pics which show Go 242 at Heraklion aerodrome.

Regards

Aviator

Re: S-ST Go 242
 

Hi Aviator,

It would be of grate interest to see a pic of them you mentioned.

Re: S-ST Go 242
 

Hello Byron,

Here are the pics i reffered to.Partly found at an auction.Your feedback is welcome.
Another topic.Do you have any info concerning the exact locations of Korinos,Kazaklar(Ambelonas),Agrinion and Ptolemais airfield? Fotos,google maps coordinates etc.

Thx in advance,

regards,
Aviator

Re: S-ST Go 242
 

Very nice and not common photos, thank you Aviator,

the second pic, is`nt it from Athens?

I`ll try to find the places you asked on a map and post them. These airfields were flattened fields, i doubt if they exist in our days.

Re: S-ST Go 242
 

Agrinion: 38 35 N – 21 25 E
Kazaklar: 39 45 N – 22 24 E
Korinos: 40 19 N – 22 35 E
Ptolemais: 40 29 N – 21 41 E and 40 28 N – 21 43 E

L.

Re: S-ST Go 242
 

@ Aviator

you have already the coordinates from Larry
Attached 4 maps (in greek) to get an idea of these places
Kazaklar is named now "Ambelon"

Re: S-ST Go 242
 

Thank you Byron and Larry!
I checked out at google maps.Are these the very exact positions,or do they show only the rough location?It seems that except Korinos they are .Where in Ptolemais 2 airfields because of the 2 coordinates?And if yes which unit operated from them?
Furthermore,i forgot another more:Vasilike Trikallon which i found but i cant locate the landing field.Larry,could you pls add the coordinates?Does any Fotos exist of these fields?

Thank you a lot in advance!

Regards,

Aviator

Re: S-ST Go 242
 

I have:
Vasileemi: 39 37 N - 21 42 E
Trikkala: 39 37 N - 21 42 E

That's it. Although listed separately, they have the same coordinates so they must be the same airfield but with two alternative names.

L.

Re: S-ST Go 242
 

I would say, all these airfields except Agrinion were temporary, used after the half of April 1941 for a very short time.

a quick answer

for ex. I./St.G. 1 and Stab, II and III./JG 27 used Ptolemais during the period 17.04.41-00.05.41, or 4./Aufkl.St. (F) 22

Agrinion 06.43-09.43 3./N.A.Gr. 2

b.

Re: S-ST Go 242
 

the right name is Wassiliki. The place is nearby meteora, a very impressive landscape of central Greece

Re: S-ST Go 242
 

I have as Kdr. of Verb.Kdo. S2 (DFS) Hptm...... Frömert (10.1942)
Can anyone of our specialists verify that?

Re: S-ST Go 242
 

FRÖMERT, ? . c.07.42 Hptm., Kdr. VK(S) 2 (still 11.42).

In all the thousands and thousands of pages of Luftwaffenpersonalamt documents, other Luftwaffe documents plus hundreds and hundreds of books, I have never seen his name mentioned again. That suggests that he may have been wounded later or fallen ill and was removed from active duty.

Re: S-ST Go 242
 

thanks Larry,

your willingness and your contribution in this Forum is irreplaceable

Re: S-ST Go 242
 

Thanks, Byron, and it's always nice working with you. I am glad someone appreciates my very modest and humble postings.

L. :)

Re: S-ST Go 242
 

Hi Larry,

this is most certainly Hptm Herbert Frömert. In June - November 42 he has many entries in his Flugbuch with Grottaglie, Lecce, Derna, Tobruk, Catania, St Piedro, Kalamaki flying different aircraft types such as Me110, He111, Bf108, Ju87, Ju52. For example on 17.09.42 at Lecce he made a "Schleppflug" with Ju87 "PP+UN" which was towed to a newly assembled DFS230. Hptm Frömert survived the war. His last assignment was with II. JG400 as Ia Einsatzoffizier

Hope that helps, Karl

Re: S-ST Go 242
 

very interesting new infos Karl, thanks

Re: S-ST Go 242
 

Thanks for that, Karl. It fills in a key gap in our records and, of course, it is good to learn that he survived the war and was not wounded or injured.

L.

Re: S-ST Go 242
 

A great thank you to all,esp.Byron and Larry !

Did an airfield in Lamia,Greece exist or is it an error?

Regards,

Aviator

Re: S-ST Go 242
 

There was no airport in Lamia Aviator

Re: S-ST Go 242
 

But it is listed in the AirMin A.I.2.(b) list for Greece date 7 September 1943:

No. 73 LAMIA 38 52 N - 22 26 E

So at one time or another it may have been used as an emergency landing ground or landing ground. As such, it could have been simply a level field or pasture where aircraft could alight and take off if and when needed.

L.

Re: S-ST Go 242
 

Hi Larry,

maybe on paper, i don`t know, if you say so, it is so!
But I have a lot of friends in Lamia, one of them from the well known Tsangaris family, he dos`nt live anymore, was an activ member in age of 16 of the resistance.

Frank Meyer is refering of him in his book "Vermißt in Griechenland. Schicksale im griechische Freiheitskampf 1941-1944 .
Ein Vierteljahrhundert forschte der Verfasser nach dem Schicksal seines Vaters, der 1943 von griechischen Partisanen entführt und von der Wehrmacht für vermißt erklärt wurde ." If i remember well, Tsangaris was one of the men who kidnaped the writers father.

http://www.hfmeyer.com/german/veroef...gen/index.html

We talked about that matter of an airport there. He said, he never noticed a single plain starting or landing in that area.
I would like to refer here about a fine german officer who was the commander of the "Stadtkommandantur Lamia". He was Oberst W. Sitzenstock. He saved many lifes during the occupation time, no one citizen was executed aslong as he was in charge.

All this is out of our subject but the stories of the resistance are fascinating.

Re: S-ST Go 242
 

Thanks for the very interesting information, Byron. I agree about the resistance: those were some extraordinarily brave people because they knew what would happen to them if picked up and turned over to the SS, Gestapo or the GFP.

As for Lamia, the Luftwaffe always made lists of Notlandeplätze as well as the active airfields for those countries in which they operated. The 7 September 1943 list I referred to identifies 159 "airfields" in Greece and, as you and I both know, there was actually only a small fraction of those that were actually used. So I think Lamia was probably one of the Notlandeplätze. It is entirely possible that it was never actually used during the war years. A Notlandeplatz was just a level area 1,000 meters or more in length that had been inspected and judged usable for emergency landings.

L.

Re: S-ST Go 242
 

That`s to understand now Larry,

Lw. prepared in different places these "Notlandeplätze" for a case it would be needed. This is german organizing spirit.

But, also the resistance had a lot of such improvised airfields on the mountains where british and american planes landed and brought men, amunition and supplies from Kairo. And thousands of gold british sovereigns. There are people in Greece who are still searching to locate a treasure.

I found in the Wardiaries of Hgr E, lists with such airfields, the germans new everything but couldn`t do much. A fight against determined partisans inside their own country and the population on their side, is hopeless.

Re: S-ST Go 242
 

I wonder why that makes me think of A F G H A N I S T A N and the T A L I B A N ? :)

Re: S-ST Go 242
 

Tja Larry,

not only you is wondering

Re: S-ST Go 242
 

As i can see, an interesting discussion about greek airfields developed.Interesting about these Notlandeplätze. Thanks both!
Larry,is it possible to make this Airmin list of greek airfields available here or private?
Thx a lot,

regards,

Aviator

Re: S-ST Go 242
 

It would interest me a lot as well

Re: S-ST Go 242
 

No, Aviator, but you could probably e-mail AFHRA ( www.afhra.af.mil ) and ask for photocopies, microfilm or DVD of their British Air Ministry files on the wartime airfields in Greece.

L.