Personal Life of Walter Oesau & Other Questions
 

Hi,

I am writing an article on Oberst Walter Oesau on Wikipedia. However I am stumped on few points. I'd appreciate if someone could give me credible references for the following points.

1. He's said to have liked to ride Bikes with no Helmets.
2. His personal life. Especially reagarding his marriage.
3. According to this link, there is a Quote from Major Hartmann Grasser"At that time, the intellectual capacity and physical state of Oesau often exhausted by the missions of interception. Sure, its forces were already at the end. Several pilots and they were German leaders, like him, forced to fight without rest and I think this was one of the great mistakes of our leadership. "


I will truly appreciate if someone could provide a reference that mentions any of these points.


Perseus

Re: Personal Life of Walter Oesau & Other Questions
 

Mr. "Perseus",

I am pretty sure, that Walter Oesau never wanted to have a look into his pants - neither from you or anybody else.

So, please let these private questions out from this board and take Walter Oesau as the man he was: a genuine pilot and a fine guy.

Horst

Re: Personal Life of Walter Oesau & Other Questions
 

Hi Horst,

I don't intend to be rude or go into details of the personal life. All I am trying to do is to complete the biography I am writing on Wikipedia. In any biography you at least in passing need to mention the fact that the person had a family. Without credible references to cite, I can't even mention the fact that he even had a wife. With all due respect I am NOT getting into his pants. All I am trying to show is a personal side to the great aviator.

Cheers

Perseus

Re: Personal Life of Walter Oesau & Other Questions
 

Isn't something missing from this sentence?

Re: Personal Life of Walter Oesau & Other Questions
 

Possibly. :D


I suspect Perseus is an American? Something of a communication problem, in Europe the phrase "..try and get in someone's pants" means to attempt to have sex with them..." *laughing*

Unless there's some weird necrophilia Luftwaffe cult I was unaware of...

Re: Personal Life of Walter Oesau & Other Questions
 

Horst, Perseus is only attempting to fill out and round out the biography on Wikipedia.

As you might or might not remember, I'm working on a biography myself, hopefully in about 10 years or so (given how things can be with the new baby) I would like to try to get it published.

In order to do so, however, we need to be able to get the information that we are requesting - I am trying every channel I can, as is Perseus - not for our own perverse pleasure, but to round out and finish a biography on a man who, in my opinion, and I think in Perseus', deserves the attention that his more famous Kamaraden have had in the years passing.

Yeah, there's a weird cult, I can guarantee you that, Max - It's an internet joke called "rule 32" I think - if you can imagine it, someone has already created it. XD

Re: Personal Life of Walter Oesau & Other Questions
 

I tend to side with Horst on this one, unless you are dealing with members of Oesau's family, or other first-person references, it will only be conjecture. There is no doubt that Oesau was one of the Luftwaffe's great "Vorbilds" and "Draufgaengers", and it should be left at that.

Re: Personal Life of Walter Oesau & Other Questions
 

So how do you expect anyone to write biographies on people? Magic book-writing fairies?

Believe me, once I can get more information from the family, I won't be asking so many questions on here - the problem is that a vast majority of the family does not want to talk about their esteemed relative, and that makes it even harder.

I'm not whining here, I'm simply stating a fact. If one wants to write a book about someone, one should use all the resources that one has - including forums, libraries, etc.

I mean the late Oberst Oesau no disrespect at ALL, quite the contrary. I think it is time that a biography be written on him, and come Hell or high water, I'm going to do it.

My husband wants me to concentrate on the living Luftwaffe, and I can see his point - it is important to preserve history, and getting it live is the best - but if the person you want to write on is deceased, then you do what you need to do. I want to preserve and honor his memory and the history. Not to disgrace or disrespect in the least bit!

I have collaborated on Napoleonic history before; I understand what research and all that wonderfully fun (this is not sarcasm. I LOVE studying) digging, searching and finding can entail, and I am willing to do it. I'm even re-learning a foreign language so I can do so.

Now how does it look to new forum members, who come in looking for information, when der Alte treat them in such a manner? Perseus - and I - were looking for information, nothing more. Again, this is NOT meant as disrespect for the memory of the man, but a thirst for knowledge, and the full disclosure. If I was dead, and perhaps as famous, I would want the same treatment - full disclosure. And I would make sure that my family would know that.

It is mentioned elsewhere that Oberst Oesau wrote an autobiography - I am also trying to get information on that, so that perhaps it might be translated in the future.

It is extremely important that history is preserved, and that the true story is told so that we may know, in time, the truth, and be better informed of what is truth and what is conjecture.

Re: Personal Life of Walter Oesau & Other Questions
 

Maximowtiz, I am pretty sure the more appropriate expression would be 'walk in his shoes' rather than the 'pants' uh-thingie--because it means the same thing in the US as in Europe


nm

Re: Personal Life of Walter Oesau & Other Questions
 

In Rudel's Stuka Pilot, as detailed as he gets, he never even mentions the fact that he was even married. By the way, he was, and his wife was a very attractive woman by the way. As long as one is detailing the lives of these airmen isn't it appropriate to mention the basic details of their personal lives to give us more of a feel for personalities?

Re: Personal Life of Walter Oesau & Other Questions
 

With all due respect, Wikipedia isn't what I would call a good resource for biographical material, except in the most superficial sense.

Re: Personal Life of Walter Oesau & Other Questions
 

Quite.

An Oesau bio? Why not? I see no reason for it not to be written, providing it is well researched and honest, which I'm sure it would be. I'd like to see similar bios of Walter Dahl and Kurt Welter too, anything to put some "skin on the bones."

Re: Personal Life of Walter Oesau & Other Questions
 

Hi All,

First off apologies for that BIG Whoopsi. Of course I have nor ever had any other intentions than pure knowledge. Me and couple of others are trying our best to write a series of articles on a bygone era. People like Heinz Bar, Erich Hartmann, Hans Joachim Marselle to name a few along side Walter Oesau. We are also attempting to write about the Luftwaffe wings from the period that carried their names.

Wikipedia is not THE best source for information. Yet many people do visit it every day to look up information. All I am trying to offer is complete and accurate information on these fighting men that deserve that the users be aware of the honarable life they led. While doing so, you at the least need to mention the fact that they also had a personal side. For ex. Oesau also had a carefree personality apart from being an expert marksman. Now wouldn't a novice person looking up Oesau's name want to know these things ?

Sure you could write a biography detailing their military career. But don't you think that will be kind of incomplete without such information ? conjecture or not, I am hoping the knowledgeable members of this forum could at least point in right direction. At this point in time, I have pretty much exhausted EVERY SINGLE link I could find in the 10 pages google has returned. That's how the Wikipedia article has come to where it is now. Even if a soource can be considered conjecture, I still can mention it if it has half credible information.

I could easily stop reserching on Oesau and move on. Like Flitzer mentioned, there are quiet a few people on whom biographies can be written. (In fact I already started on Heinz Knoke.)

But do we want a complete picture or half finished painting ?

Perseus

Re: Personal Life of Walter Oesau & Other Questions
 

Hi,

Personally, I am in support of your research efforts especially as they appear quite genuine. Wikipedia can be very useful, and I've certainly found occasions when it has come in useful as a trigger to further research - sometimes leading to updates on Wikipedia!

As for personal lives of 'aces' etc. again I find this of interest. So often it is the case that private lives and attitudes are interwoven with military lives and experiences and knowledge of these can help us to understand actions and consequences in both areas.

Regards,

David

Re: Personal Life of Walter Oesau & Other Questions
 

As we are at it, I'll throw in a couple of cents as well.

Let me start with a basic fact: I can give the OP none of the answers.

Unless there some sexual innuendo involved with the first question, I don't think anyone could be offended by its inclusion in a short biography. Riding a bike (as in motorcycle) without a helmet gives us a certain "romantic" image of him as a biker that we can transpose to him as a soldier, fighter pilot and fighter leader. It establishes a character that we all recognise, even today.

The second question. There are so many ways to tackle this. Most biographies and autobiographies start with an introduction from early youth, sometimes parents and even grandparents get similar attention, school, military training, flight school and indeed a little romance etc. Lets be clear, in an autobiography it is what the writer wants to share with us, so we have little to argue here. If not written by a ghostwriter, or at least based on facts, every line gives us an insight into the character, if only by style. That leaves the biography.

Again, if well written and in proportion to the primary subject a personal background helps to establish the character in a way all people can recognise. In the case of biographies this context is (IMHO) made or broken by the style and the extend to which the author draws his subsequent conclusions. Make this part too elaborate and it detracts from the "military" biography.

On the one hand we have examples of character assassination, writing akin to a gossip columns, or simply hiding the fact that the author has too little (military) knowledge.

IMHO a biography of a military subject needs to focus on the military career, but that need not be a dogma. To name a recent example, Kurt Braatz has succeeded in painting a very broad picture of Moelders the man, without adhering to any such strict guidelines. On the other side are books that read like mission debriefs, certainly interesting, but those give very little contextual information, just combat.

When in doubt, keep it simple, keep it short, stay with the facts, don't draw any conclusions and move to the military career, the rest is icing.

Finally the Grasser quote, few can argue is unrelated to the primary subject at hand, it is even essential in the context of his death. According to resident member Franek Grabowski it is however not entirely correct, so perhaps he can fill in on this myth.

Note to Franek, I think it would be interesting to see this subject from a different angle, hence my request (nothing more and nothing less).

Re: Personal Life of Walter Oesau & Other Questions
 

Well, I cannot say about this particular case, but indeed the continuous service of Luftwaffe aces is a myth. They had their periods of rest or non-operational service (see eg. Marseille or Graff), their units were rotated between various fronts and home bases, etc. The fact is that the nervous break down may appear instantly, and sometimes with no apparent reason.
Given the situation, ie. tremendous Luftwaffe losses of the time, those including Oeasu's friends, I may not exclude that he suffered some mental problems, but I would not point out lack of rest period as the reason. I would rather suggest the real reason was poor training scheme and inappropriate tactics that cornered the Jagdwaffe.
I suppose that some answers may be in Oeasu's diary, which as far as I know is surviving.
By the way, is it my impression only, that nervous breakdowns happened only on the Western Front?

Re: Personal Life of Walter Oesau & Other Questions
 

Thanks Ryu and Franek for the information. That's appreciated.

To David's point, that's quiet true, that's exactly why I am trying to provide as complete a picture as possible.

Ryu's point absolutely spot on. I am trying to add some personality to the Leader's career so that it does not become mission diary. Also the way my article stands, it pretty much starts after Oesau joined Army. What or how his life was before that is not known. I'd love to find out but due to my unique circumstances, I can't access any books on the topic.

I do agree that the onset of breakdown can be sudden, may be things were different on western front. Then again here's the thing, according to
Sundin, Claes; Christer Bergström (2002). More Luftwaffe Fighter Aircraft in Profile. Schiffer Publishing. pp. 56. ISBN 0764315595. P. 56,

Oesau was in bed with Enfluenza and had a high fever. Only due to Goring's snide remarks, he took to air. Could that be possible that the fever hindered his ability to fight ? I am not sure of that remark about the leadership as its unsourced and unreferenced on a spotty website. I was hoping to find out if anyone else here had come across that remark. Supposedly Grasser was on the same mission as Oesau and had seen Oesau being chased by five Aces of USAAF.
So I am wondering about the whole remark.

Thanks for the help.


Perseus

Re: Personal Life of Walter Oesau & Other Questions
 

We avoid the personal stuff and concentrate on finding the essential facts of each fellow’s career. This is less colourful, but we aim for straight historical facts. Here is what we have on Walter.

OESAU, Walter (“Gulle”).
DOB: 28.06.13 in Farnewinkel/Holstein
1933 joined the Heer and served with an Artillerie-Rgt.
1934 promo to Fahnenjunker and undertook flying training at a DVS.
1936 assigned to I./JG 132.
20.04.37 promo to Lt.
04.38 volunteered for the Legion Condor in Spain and flew with 3. J/88 (to c.02.39).
01.03.39 trf to Stab I./JG 131 (later I./JG 2).
15.07.39 Oblt., TDY from JG 2 to I./JG 20 and appt Staka 1./JG 20 (to 04.07.40).
13.06.40 Oblt., Staka 1./JG 20.
04.07.40 appt Staka 7./JG 51 (to 24.08.40).
19.07.40 promo to Hptm.
20.08.40 Hptm., awarded Ritterkreuz, Staka 7./JG 51.
25.08.40 Hptm., appt Kdr. III./JG 51 (to 10.11.40).
11.11.40 Hptm., appt Kdr. III./JG 3 (to 28.07.41).
06.02.41 Hptm., awarded Eichenlaub, Kdr. III./JG 3.
15.07.41 Hptm., awarded Schwerter, Kdr. III./JG 3 and promo to Maj.
01.08.41 Maj., appt Kommodore JG 2 (to 18.06.43).
01.02.43 promo to Obstlt.
22.06.43 Obstlt., appt Jagdfliegerführer 4 (Lfl. 3) (to 01.09.43).
17.10.43 Obstlt., awarded DKG, Jafü 4.
12.11.43 Obstlt., appt Kommodore JG 1 (to 11.05.44 KIA - shot down by P-38 Lightnings over St.-Vith in the Eifel) Bf 109G-6/AS (WNr. 20601, “green 13”) attempted to belly land but cartwheeled fatally. 10.01.44 awarded DKG.
01.05.44 posthumous promo to Oberst.
Credited with 125 (126?) air victories in some 300 combat missions.


We hope that this helps.


LdZ
DGS

Re: Personal Life of Walter Oesau & Other Questions
 

..according to Robert Skawran in an issue of Jägerblatt (Nov 1963) Oesau claimed his 127th during this combat...(see also his book 'Ikaros') - that should be easy enough to verify
The likelihood is that he was fatally wounded during the combat, rather than killed in the 'crash-landing'....
(again according to Skawran & repeated in Prien, JG 1&11 Teil2 P926). There is an 'eye-witness' account of the 'crash' in Erik Mombeeck's reprinted JG 1 series..

Re: Personal Life of Walter Oesau & Other Questions
 

I tend to agree here. In other research I have come across that there were "fatal hits" into the cockpit area by the attacking forces.

And this is getting INTERESTING, I might add.

Re: Personal Life of Walter Oesau & Other Questions
 

Hi FalkeEins, Doug,

Thanks for that Summary. Although I was aware of some of the pieces of information, that summary is really helpful. Also I was surprised to learn that there are versions of him surviving that crash. Or for that matter the aircraft cartwheeling. All I knew was that he was trying to belly land when the aircraft received a final burst in cockpit area.

I guess you learn something new everyday! Do we at all know what he used to do before joining Heer ? More importantly why was he called Gulle ? Is that related to the way he piloted his aircraft ?

Thanks once again.

Perseus

Re: Personal Life of Walter Oesau & Other Questions
 

Are you aware of the wartime biography published in 1944 by Hanns Arens Verlag. It is 48 pages long, soft cover, and was written by Friedrich Griese. Given that it was a wartime publication, I have no idea how accurate it is, and how much of it constitutes propaganda.

Frank.

Re: Personal Life of Walter Oesau & Other Questions
 

Oh my, I wasn't aware of that biography - All I know of is Fleigergeschite (sp? It's 6 am here. LOL) No. 85 - which is what I have (and is under glass at the moment)

I bet it is of the similar mold as the war-time Moelders biography and the Wick biography from the same era.

But it still would be an interesting read, nevertheless, as it would be a contemporary view of the man, and that is always an interest for me.

Re: Personal Life of Walter Oesau & Other Questions
 

Hi,

somthing about Gulle and Ille, 2 boys in a lil small town.

from the book: tell us of early, grandma

Quelle: http://books.google.de/books?id=ZYvP...um=2&ct=result

Page 170/171 ff.


"Sis

Re: Personal Life of Walter Oesau & Other Questions
 

Hi Frank,

Yes I was aware of that biography. But like you said, it tends to be looked at on par with say Heydrich's "My Honor is Loyalty". So I was a bit concerned on quoting it.

Thanks Lilsis for that book. I will definitely go over that.

Cheers

Perseus

Re: Personal Life of Walter Oesau & Other Questions
 

Yes, thanks, lilsis - it will give me something to read over Sunday and Monday!

Re: Personal Life of Walter Oesau & Other Questions
 

I have somewhere, I think, a paperback version of either the wartime book on Molders or Wick in which there is an advert for a book in the same series on Walter Oesau, although I have no idea if it was ever published. I have certainly never seen it in well over thirty years of collecting although that is not to say it doesn't exist - but I imagine it would have surfaced by now if it did.

Re: Personal Life of Walter Oesau & Other Questions
 

Ah Well. I really hope there was a book written. But then again it would probably be leaning towards propaganda angle anyway. Nevertheless it would have been most valuable.

Quick question though. This ad on the back you mentioned, does it say anything else about the next book in series ? Say the title of the book perhaps ? Hopefully we might be able to look it up that way if it was ever published.

Cheers

Perseus

Re: Personal Life of Walter Oesau & Other Questions
 

The Wartime Book is part of the "Unsere Jagdflieger" series, 1943, Hanns Arens Verlag, Berlin-Herrlingen, 48 pages text with 23 B/W illustrations. Oesau was the second in this series. Yes, they were produced for wartime propoganda indeed but having details often not seen in other articles. Oesau pictured in his School Sports Team for instance, lying in state in the Meldorfer Dom and Galland giving a last salute. There are "personal" details but probably idealised views of the airman from the RLM rather than solid facts but there is a "life of Oesau" here which does seem to match with the tough but fair views seen elsewhere.

I have seen this book on e-bay for $15 and in the American Book Exchange (abe.com) for between $30 and $50 on three occasions in the last few years! If I see it soon. I have just loked on ABE, there are 2 for sale at $43.44 an $54...Simply serach on griese and Oesau on abe.com book search .Get in there perseus and Red Baroness...


Brian

"Unsere Jagdflieger #2: Oesau"
 

The Oesau book in the series seems to have been printed in greater numbers than the others, because copies do show up fairly regularly, as pointed out by Brian.

It contains some details about his personal life: His childhood sweetheart's name was Lotte, and she later became his wife (no marriage date, however.) His dog was named Ajax.

There's also an interesting account of a fortuitous choice that Oesau made that saved his life. For his return trip to Germany from the Spanish Civil War, he was offered a seat on a courier plane for the 8-hour flight to Berlin, but he switched with someone else in order to travel by rail and steamer instead. After 36 hours on the train, just before departing on the steamer, he heard that the courier plane had crashed, with the loss of all aboard. After that twist of fate, Oesau says that he requested "einen guten Whisky".

(To Red Baroness: I recently obtained an extra copy of this book. I know you'll be able to put it to good use, so just send me your address via PM and I'll gladly mail it to you.)

Leon Venter

Re: Personal Life of Walter Oesau & Other Questions
 

Quite an odd statement considering the purpose of a good biography. For example, Bruce Gamble´s excellent biography of Gregory Boyington has lots of very personal information. Or Carlo D'Este´s excellent bio on Patton.

Re: "Unsere Jagdflieger #2: Oesau"
 

Sent you the PM, Leon.

That bright spark on the horizon? Me exploding with excitement :D

Thank you so much again!