Heinz-Edgar Berres
 

Hi guys

I have read that Leutnant Heinz-Edgar Berres (52 victories, RK, missing in action 25 July 1943) of Stab I./JG 77 was shot down and forced to bale out of his fighter on 3 November 1942, possibly in the same engagement during which he claimed a P-40 fighter as his 20th victory. However, the only matching losses that JG 77 suffered around that date that would fit the circumstances are:

2 November 1942: Bf 109 G-2/Trop (W.Nr. 10 549) of 1./JG 77 due to enemy fighters southwest of El Alamein
2 November 1942: Bf 109 G-2/Trop (W.Nr. 10 480) of 1./JG 77 due to enemy fire south of El Daba
4 November 1942: Bf 109 G-2/Trop (W.Nr. 10 568) of Stab/JG 77 due to enemy fire over Qutaifiya

In all three incidents the pilot baled out and the fighter struck the ground burning. Is the information that Berres was shot down that day incorrect or is there the possibility that he was flying one of these aircraft and the date when he was shot down according to the information I read erroneous?

Horrido!

Leo

Re: Heinz-Edgar Berres
 

http://www.luftwaffe.cz/berres.html

20 15:57 P-40 Stab I./JG 77 NW Quotaifiya
Please note date of 3.11.1942. No indication he was shot down on that date

Kind regards

Ross

Re: Heinz-Edgar Berres
 

Hi Leo,

Was looking for something else when I found this thread. Heinz-Edgar Berres was indeed shot down on 3 November 1942, and was rescued by the Wüstennotstaffel ten kilometres south of Bir el Abd.

I'll hopefully email you in the next couple of days with some Jagdgeschwader 2 pilot biographies for you to check.

Cheers,
Andrew A.
Air War Publications - www.airwarpublications.com/earticles

Heinz-Edgar Berres
 

Hello Andrew

Many thanks for reviving this old thread. Since it is now confirmed that this incident occurred is there any information regarding the aircraft he was flying at the time or is this one of those losses which are not included in the loss lists? Many thanks for any help.

Horrido!

Leo

Re: Heinz-Edgar Berres
 

1942-11-03, Stab I/JG 77, Bf 109 G-2 Trop, 10568, Qutaifiya, Absturz infolge Feindbeschuß und Aufschlagbrand. Bruch 100 %.
Flugzeugführer Lt Berres, Heinz-Edgar
Lt Berres mit Fallschirm abgesprungen.

Matti

Heinz-Edgar Berres
 

Hello Matti

Many thanks for your helpful reply. It is great to finally have this information and the aphorism better late then never is certainly true. Please take care and thanks.

Horrido!

Leo

Re: Heinz-Edgar Berres
 

Hello,

Interesting indeed. So, 3/11 or 4/11 as written on post #1?

Re: Heinz-Edgar Berres
 

Hi Franck,

The pilot was definitely rescued on 3 November 1942 at 16:00. Given that he claimed an aerial victory at 15:57 on 3 November 1942, I'd suggest that he was shot down during that combat.

Cheers,
Andrew A.
Air War Publications - www.airwarpublications.com/earticles

Re: Heinz-Edgar Berres
 

Hello Andrew,

Thanks, indeed. But:
Leo is not reputed to be a "rooky"; so what is his source: a publication? If so, what's the publication source? :)

Cheers, Franck.

Re: Heinz-Edgar Berres
 

Hi Franck,

I just checked Prien, Jagdgeschwader 77, and he has the Berres loss listed on 3 November 1942 in WNr. 10 568 with the Stab of I./J.G. 77 (page 1315), but also lists WNr. 10 568 destroyed on 4 November with the Stab of J.G. 77 (page 1319). Presumably this was Leo's source for the 4 November loss.

Cheers,
Andrew A.
Air War Publications - www.airwarpublications.com/earticles

Re: Heinz-Edgar Berres
 

Thank you Andrew.

Maybe a typo story here ...

Cheers, Franck.

Heinz-Edgar Berres
 

Hi guys

I am almost positive that the source for the loss information that I posted was a DVD with scans of the QM 6 microfilms that has since gone bad. It is interesting that Jagdgeschwader 77 by Prien mentions this same aircraft as being lost on two different dates and with two different units. It would be interesting to know what the relevant volume of Die Jagdfliegerverbände der Deutschen Luftwaffe 1934 bis 1945 by Prien mentions regarding this incident.

Horrido!

Leo

Re: Heinz-Edgar Berres
 

Here are the losses I have for JG 77 for 3/4-Nov-42 - note that the only source for the 4-Nov loss is the original JG 77 volume from Mr. Prien. It's likely a duplicate entry from that source since all the other WNr. 105x8s are also listed in the original JG 77 history.

Bf 109G-2/trop, 10568, BERRES, Ltn. Edgar, 52, I., Stab I., JG 77, , , , , 03-Nov-42, Luftkampf. F FSA., RK. Stab/JG 77 at Quotaifiya per loss., Ob.Bhf.Süd/Afrika, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #7)-Vol.12; Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, VIII.2, p.305; Prien, JG 77, III, p.1315, , nahe Bir-el-Abd, 100%, F, , ,
Bf 109G-2/trop, 10657, ./., , III., , JG 77, , , , , 03-Nov-42, Destroyed by own forces., , Ob.Bhf.Süd/Afrika, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #8)-Vol.13; Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, VIII.2, p.333; Prien, JG 77, III, p.1318, , Tanyet-Harun, 100%, F, , ,
Bf 109G-2/trop, 10661, ./., , III., , JG 77, , , , , 03-Nov-42, Destroyed by own forces., , Ob.Bhf.Süd/Afrika, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #8)-Vol.13; Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, VIII.2, p.333; Prien, JG 77, III, p.1318, , Tanyet-Harun, 100%, F, , ,
Bf 109G-2/trop, , Lüdemann, Ltn. Heinz, 5+, III., 8., JG 77, , , , , 04-Nov-42, WIA due to Luftkampf. Safe landing., WIA on 11-Nov in WNr. 10639 per loss!!, Ob.Bhf.Süd/Afrika, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #8)-Vol.13; Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, VIII.2, p.333, , Gambut, 10%, F, , ,
Bf 109G-2/trop, 10501, n.n., , St., Stab, JG 77, weiße, , , , 04-Nov-42, Undercarriage damage. Destroyed by own forces near the airfield. Wreck found by Brits in Nov-42., At Bir el Akra per loss., Ob.Bhf.Süd/Afrika, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #7)-Vol.12; Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, VIII.2, p.269; Prien, JG 77, III, p.1323, p.1316 photo, , Bir-el-Abd, 100%, F, , ,
Bf 109G-2/trop, 10508, n.n., , St., Stab, JG 77, , , , , 04-Nov-42, Bruchlandung due to Luftkampf., , Ob.Bhf.Süd/Afrika, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #7)-Vol.12; Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, VIII.2, p.269; Prien, JG 77, III, p.1323, , Bir-el-Abd, 100%, F, , ,
Bf 109G-2/trop, 10528, ./., , I., 3., JG 77, , , TN+ED, , 04-Nov-42, Destroyed by own forces., , Ob.Bhf.Süd/Afrika, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #7)-Vol.12; Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, VIII.2, p.305; Prien, JG 77, III, p.1321, Menke, Fl.Pl. Bir-el-Abd, 100%, F, , ,
Bf 109G-2/trop, 10533, Schlick, Uffz. Horst, 34, I., 1., JG 77, weiße, 3 +, TN+EI, , 04-Nov-42, Engine trouble. Destroyed by own troops. Machine shortly after captured by Brits., Captured mostly intact per photos., Ob.Bhf.Süd/Afrika, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #7)-Vol.12; Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, VIII.2, p.305; Prien, JG 77, III, p.1319-20 photos, Menke, Fl.Pl. Bir-el-Abd, 100%, F, , ,
Bf 109G-2/trop, 10548, ./., , I., 1., JG 77, , , TN+EX, , 04-Nov-42, Tiefangriff. Destroyed by own forces., , Ob.Bhf.Süd/Afrika, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #7)-Vol.12; Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, VIII.2, p.305; Prien, JG 77, III, p.1319, Menke, Fl.Pl. Bir-el-Abd, 100%, F, , ,
Bf 109G-2/trop, 10567, n.n., , I., 1., JG 77, , , , , 04-Nov-42, Bruchlandung. Destroyed by own forces., Crashed during take-off per loss., Ob.Bhf.Süd/Afrika, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #7)-Vol.12; Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, VIII.2, p.305; Prien, JG 77, III, p.1319, , Fl.Pl. Bir-el-Abd, 100%, F, , ,
Bf 109G-2, 10568, n.n., , St., Stab, JG 77, , , , , 04-Nov-42, Luftkampf. F OK, FSA., , Afrika, Prien, JG 77, III, p.1319, , bei Quotaifiya, 100%, F, ,

Re: Heinz-Edgar Berres
 

Date 02.11.1942

For the losses of this date for 1./ JG 77, Prien gives the folloeing names:

10 480 Ltn. Bruno Kolthoff

10 549 Uffz. Horst Schlick

Regards Rüdiger