Luftwaffe over Scapa Flow
 

Hi All,

It`s been a long time since I posted on this forum but I am glad to see from the members list that I am still one of the crew so to speak,reason being really that my research covered mainly allied aircraft and few Luftwaffe, and my very sparse knowledge of the latter would not be much help to people on this forum,so I hope you will all bear with me.

Still continuing research into losses on and around the Scottish Islands, I have recently been involved with a new group on Orkney called `Aviation Research Group of Orkney & Shetland, or ARGOS for short, the group is run by Kevin Heath a diver on Orkney who after years of diving shipwrecks has now turned his interest to aircraft. At present we are trying to ID all the aircraft that came down on and around Scapa Flow and I see from my sparse records, mainly based on the appendix in `Sky Over Scapa` by Gregor Lamb, that several Luftwaffe aircraft came down in Scapa Flow, or Did they????

Here is a short list of aircraft that are listed as in Scapa Flow, Can any of the Luftwaffe researchers out there confirm/disprove:

1/ Ju-88 in sea off Island of Hoy, 20/9/39.

2/ Ju-88 in sea between Hoy & Stroma, shot down by shore AA
during bombing attack on HMS Iron Duke. 17/10/39. Another
Ju-88 is confirmed as crashing at Pegal Burn,Hoy on this date
With pilot Ober/Lt Flaemig, but the one in the sea eludes me.

3/ Ju-88 4D+EK ? In sea Scapa Flow? 10/12/39.

4/ Dornier Do-17 Crashed in to sea off Copinsay Island, Orkney.
4/1/40.

5/ Do.8G? From 1/KO/FLGR 406? Shot down by Skuas of 801 Sq
East of Orkney 15/5/40.

6/ Luftwaffe aircraft u/k poss Ju-88? Crashed in Scapa Flow? 16/3/40.


Any details on any of the above would be most welcome and gratefully appreciated.

Regards.
Dave.

aka: highgroundsman - RAF Commands forum.

Re: Luftwaffe over Scapa Flow
 

Dave,

I can only offer you the following and have nothing whatsoever on your other queries. Are you sure of those dates ?

October 17, 1939: 2./KG30 Junkers Ju88A-1. Suffered direct hit by AA fire during attack on British Fleet in Scapa Flow and exploded in Pegal Burn on the island of Hoy in the Orkney Islands 11.15 a.m. (Ff) Oberlt Walter Flämig, (Beo) Gefr Hans Attenberger, and (Bs) Uffz Rudi Faust killed. (Bf) Uffz Fritz Ambrosius baled out and captured badly wounded and burned. Aircraft 4D+EK 100% write-off.
Remains of this aircraft, the first to crash on mainland Great Britain, and three of its crew were scattered across an area of a quarter mile. They are buried at Lyness as Unknown Airmen.

March 16, 1940: 3./KG30 Junkers Ju88A-1. Lost bearings during return flight following attack on Scapa Flow and, low on petrol, belly-landed on Magelundegård Farm near Købelev, north of Nakskov on the Danish island of Sjælland, 11.30 p.m. (Ff) Uffz Siegfried-Werner Mattner, (Beo) Obergefr Hans-Erich Voß, (Bf) Uffz Erich Klose, and (Bs) Obergefr Fritz-Wilhelm Gottlebe arrested at Birkemosegaard Farm near Vindeby on March 18 and held at Hald, near Viborg, until the German invasion on April 9. Aircraft 4D+AL fired by crew 100% write-off.

Re: Luftwaffe over Scapa Flow
 

Hi Peter,

Thanks for your help, we were in touch a few years ago regarding the Ju-88 at Pegal Burn & the one at Flotterston,Sandwick, which was shot down by Lt T.R.V.Parke in a Martlet on Christmas day 1940.

To be honest Peter, dates are as they appeared in `Sky Over Scapa` but are vague, so this is also a process of elimination as well,to squash all the rumours of suspected ditchings etc.

Your mention of the one on 16/3/1940 has at least put this to rest, we know now that this aircraft is not in Orkney, so thanks for that.

Incidentally I have visited the Pegal Burn aircraft twice and there are still a few small pieces to be found, though mainly alloy skinning.

Regards.
Dave.

Re: Luftwaffe over Scapa Flow
 

Hello Islander,

These below are Ju 88 only (I leave other types for others.)

1. No Ju 88 known missing in September 39.
2. No other Ju 88 known missing 17.10.39 (but two downed day before and both are fairly well documented, Storps 4D+DK was recovered afterwards but I have yet to find the actual report.)
3. No Ju 88 known missing that date.
6. see Peters post.

I recommend you find and read carefully the book by Shores & co-authors: ´Fledling Eagles´ as all this period is well covered in there. Most or all of these questions are answered there.

Best regards
ed

Re: Luftwaffe over Scapa Flow
 

Thanks Ed,

Most helpful, I was a little suspicious of the Ju-88 quoted as bein 20 September 39, again this eliminates yet another spoof of Scapa Flow. I`ll try and find a copy of that book you mentioned.

Regards.
Dave.

Re: Luftwaffe over Scapa Flow
 

hi,
if you want information on kg26 you can also take a look into the new book "die dunklen jahre" by alexander steenbeck (see www.diedunklenjahre.de). there are a lot of photos and combat-reports of I./ and II./kg26 on their way to scottland and norway through the north sea in 1939/40.
all the best
jim

Re: Luftwaffe over Scapa Flow
 

Hi All, was pointed to this Forum by Dave (Islander) and we are working together on these Scapa losses and just want to use this first post to thank those on this thread for the help in trying to sort out these Orkney aircraft mysteries ! Thank you

Kevin

Re: Luftwaffe over Scapa Flow
 

Another Scapa Flow mystery is the two "Ein Deutscher Soldat" graves in Lyness RN Cemetery, my question is do they contain the remains of two or three members of the Flämig crew?
Regards
Joe

Re: Luftwaffe over Scapa Flow
 

Hi Joe, one of the crew is named on the headstone and 2 are unknown, one was a POW so I guess thats the entire crew accounted for ? Dave has looked into this crash a fair bit and may well have photos of the headstones?

Kevin

Re: Luftwaffe over Scapa Flow
 

Hi Kevin,
As far as I know only one German airman has a named grave at Lyness, he was Ofw Herbert Kolberg 1/KG26, he is buried next to the two unknowns, so out of Oblt Walter Flämig, Uffz Hans Attenburger and Obergefr Rudi Faust, who has suddenly gained a named grave? this would be news to the CWGC.
Regards
Joe.

Re: Luftwaffe over Scapa Flow
 

Hi Joe

It may well be the one you said?
I never paid any attention before to the airmen as my main interest was RN ships! But now I have an interst in aviation in WW2 I will pay more attention next time I am there..

all the best

Kevin

Re: Luftwaffe over Scapa Flow
 

Hi Joe,

It is believed that because of the explosion,the fire and the scattering of bodies, small remains of only two of the airmen were found but because they could not be identified they were buried as unknowns, though if it is the two graves of airmen from the Pegal Burn Ju-88 that are in Lyness, then I can`t understand why there is no date on the headstones as date of death is certainly known.

I looked in the `The Blitz - Then & Now` book for Herbert Kolberg but can find no mention, nor can I find another airman in there Uffz Fritz Heckert who was born in Abbendorf,Germany, 5/5/17 and died 28/12/41. Any ideas on this airman Joe?

Regards
Dave.

PS. Thanks to Jim Norton for the mention of that book "die dunklen jahre" by alexander steenbeck , which I gather is in German text, but of course pics contained would be of interest and google translator a help. Will have a look on that website.

Re: Luftwaffe over Scapa Flow
 

Hi Dave,
For info on Kolberg see The Blitz then and now, Vol 1, page 57, as with all bodies found at sea, or washed ashore, the date of death is usually given as when they were found, Fritz Hekert was a soldier, possibly a POW.
Regards
Joe

Re: Luftwaffe over Scapa Flow
 

10.5.1940
1 Do 18 from 1./406 shoot down by 3 british aircraft (north sea)
Oblt.z.S. Hans Ulrich Herman (died after rescue on RN ship)
Oblt. Rüdiger Wiethoff MIA
Ob,Feldw. Otto Broock POW
Uffz Kurt Momerte POW

Cant find your Do 18 from 15 may 1940, but this is likely the same


Best
Olve

Re: Luftwaffe over Scapa Flow
 

Thanks Joe & Olve,

Joe, I noticed re Fritz Heckert that you spelt his name without a `c` Hekert, yet on his headstone it is Heckert, could this be another man? or is the grave spelt wrong?

Olve, Looks like you could be right with that Do.18 and all I have at the moment so thanks for this, do you know the name of the RN ship by any chance that Oblt Herman died aboard?

Regards.
Dave.

Re: Luftwaffe over Scapa Flow
 

Dave,
I think the grave of Heckert is spelt correctly, its the same on the VDK website, its just my CWGC list of all known German burials in the UK that has spelt it wrong.
I notice that a Oblt Hans-Ulrich Hermann, born 29.01.1914-10.05.1940, is listed on the U-Boat memorial at Kiel, if this is the same man, he must have been buried at sea by the RN.
Joe.