1 March 43 Beaufighter crew claimed over North/Norwegian Sea a Ju 88
 

Hello
according to the ORB of RAF Station Leuchars on 1.Mar. 43 Beaufighter O / 235 Sqn (t/o 0730 Landed 1225) saw the 600 tons trawler it was searching lying low in the water with life boats full of people round it and enemy a/c shadowing in position HBJT 4848. O / 235 attacked and claimed one Ju 88 destr and made an unsuccessful attack on a second enemy a/c. Any idea of the identity of the possible victim?

TIA
Juha

1 March 1943
 

Hello Juha

I found the following entry on 1 March 1943:

Ju 88 D-5 (W.Nr. 430 206) of 1.(F)120 flown by Oberfeldwebel Hans Schubert due to unknown causes at Pl. Qu. 2719/05 Ost with all the crew listed as missing.

When I typed the location into the LUMA tool it mapped that this location is at:

Latitude: 56° 49 Min. 23 Sec.
Longitude: 2° 21 Min. 15 Sec.

http://www.gorissen.info/Pierre/maps...&setLatLon=Set

I hope that I used the LUMA correctly. Could this loss be related to your question?

Horrido!

Leo

Re: 1 March 43 Beaufighter crew claimed over North/Norwegian Sea a Ju 88
 

Crew list:
Ofw. Hans Schubert (F) Missing
Ofw. Heinfried Eskuche (B) Missing
Fw. Heinrich Schumacher (Bf) Missing
Fw. Friedrich Neumann (Bs) Missing

Re: 1 March 43 Beaufighter crew claimed over North/Norwegian Sea a Ju 88
 

Thanks a lot for answering, Leo and Laurent.
Is the loss area same as the area which the British pilot Sgt. Vandewater gave? I don’t know, the grid system he/the keeper of the Leuchars ORB used wasn’t the same as that the (Royal) Observer Corps used at least during the BoB, which might have bene in general use in RAF, see http://www.echodelta.net/mbs/eng-grids.php, at least on first look The British Cassini Grid seemed to be the one used by Observer Corps during the BoB. Maybe Coastal Command used system similar to that of RN.

In fact I had supposed that the combat had taken place a bit more north and nearer to the Norwegian coast but that was only a pure guess. The area of loss is plausible, especially if the vessel was on the way to/from Southernmost Norway.

A bit more background info:
The vessel was Norwegian and there must have been something special in it because 235Sqn flew 11 sorties to find it on 1 March. Also one Hanpden/455 Sqn carried special patrol to find the vessel. And of course more planes may have been participated from other stations. Pilot of the O/235 Sqn was Sgt. Vandewater. If the claim was accepted, it was his only one, because he isn’t mentioned in Shores’ Aces High, AH Vol 2 or Those Other Eagles.

Thanks again
Juha

Re: 1 March 43 Beaufighter crew claimed over North/Norwegian Sea a Ju 88
 

I contacted Howard Vandewater (who is Canadian) some years ago-he had a part share in an Ar 196 of 5/196 on 29 Sep 42, a Ju 88 of 3/123 on 13 Oct 42 and a Ju 88 of V/KG 40 20 May 43

Re: 1 March 43 Beaufighter crew claimed over North/Norwegian Sea a Ju 88
 

Hello Chris
thanks for the extra info.

Juha

Re: 1 March 43 Beaufighter crew claimed over North/Norwegian Sea a Ju 88
 

Hello Leo
Ross McNeill decyphered the CC position as 56 48n 02 48e, see http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4854, so it is near the LW position. Thinking the accuracy of oversea navigation of the day IMHO it is very possible that the Ju 88 was victim of Sgt Vandewater. Of course it is impossible to be sure based only the meagre info I have.

Thanks a lot for your very valuable help
and thanks also to Laurent nd Chris
Juha

Re: 1 March 43 Beaufighter crew claimed over North/Norwegian Sea a Ju 88
 

Juha/Chris

Now if Sgt Vandewater denies making a claim on March 1st,1943, who then made the claim?

Cheers
Stig

Re: 1 March 43 Beaufighter crew claimed over North/Norwegian Sea a Ju 88
 

Hello Stig
According to the ORB at least nobody else from Leuchars operating sqns. Now the area was almost straight due east from Leuchars, so IMHO probably no other CC a/c was in the area, but of course I cannot be sure on that. The area is appr 275 km from British coast, so IMHO probably too far away for FC. Judging from other contacts made by a/c from Leuchars and keeping in mind Dönitz complains on (in)accuracies of positions reported by LW in 1942/43 the position error is well within navigational errors of the day. But we don’t have the time of the LW loss and don’t know how the LW had arrived the given position, distress message maybe, maybe Leo knows answer to this.
And of course there is a possibility of mechanical failure. But anyway the a/c type and the area is right for Vandewater’s claim.

Juha

Re: 1 March 43 Beaufighter crew claimed over North/Norwegian Sea a Ju 88
 

Stig

CC records state that Vandewater in O destroyed a Ju 88 at 1100 hrs over the North Sea; no talk of him not claiming/being credited-my list were the others he was involved in

Re: 1 March 43 Beaufighter crew claimed over North/Norwegian Sea a Ju 88
 

An old post but I found today the identity of the attacked ship.

On 15 March 1942 the coastal steamer SS Galtesund had successfully been "hijacked" and taken to the U.K. by an armed Norwegian group of 6 men under the leadership of the 25 year old Odd Kjell Starheim, one of the pioneer members of the SOE branch called Norwegian Independent Company 1 (NOR.I.C.1). The success of the Galtesund operation helped persuade the British in approving a new, more ambitious plan: Operation Carhampton, an attempt to take over a German shipping convoy.

In the operation Starheim and 40 Norwegian soldiers were landed near Abelsnes in Vest-Agder by the Norwegian auxiliary minesweeper Bodø. Thirty of Starheim’s men were from NOR.I.C.1, while the remaining 10 belonged to the Royal Norwegian Navy. The first attempt, on 10 January 1943, at capturing a convoy failed when the coordination of the various groups was lost. A second attempt on 17 January ended in a gunfight between the commandos and German guards. The group’s cover blown, the Norwegians were hunted by large German forces and had to be assisted by local resistance people in order to survive. After an aborted attempt at attacking the strategically significant mines at Knaben the whole operation was called off. The leadership in London had not supported the plans to attack Knaben, instead approving of an attack on the titanium mine Titania in Sokndal, and the capture of a 10,000 ton ship in the Jøssingfjord. The commandos were supposed to have escaped Titania by using the mine trolleys. Starheim and 12 other Carhampton members hijacked the 732-ton Norwegian coastal passenger/cargo steamship SS Tromøsund on 28 February in an attempt to bring the ship over to Scotland, but Tromøsund never reached the UK, being sunk by German aircraft the next day. One of the bombs went down the funnel, and the boilers probably blew up. Two lifeboats with 8 men in each were also sunk.

All those on board, including the 13 commandos, the 26 crew, two passengers and three German prisoners of war, lost their lives when Tromøsund sank. Starheim and the ship’s captain were the only ones whose bodies were recovered, drifting ashore on Tjörn near Bohuslän a few weeks later, and an empty lifeboat from the ship was found on a beach in Jylland. Of the members of the operation who did not sail on Tromøsund 16 made their way to West Hartlepool in North East England by fishing boat, four men were given new missions in Norway and the rest made their way to neutral Sweden. Starheim was buried in his birthplace Lista. In addition to his British DSO, he was awarded the Norwegian War Cross.

Sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odd_Starheim
http://www.warsailors.com/singleships/tromosund.html

Best regards

Laurent

Re: 1 March 43 Beaufighter crew claimed over North/Norwegian Sea a Ju 88
 

Hello Laurent
Thanks a lot for the very interesting info!

Thankfully
Juha