IV.KG54
 

Was this unit activ over Malta in march 1942 ??? there is a loss on 23.

Remi

Re: IV.KG54
 

Interesting, Radtke only mentions a loss for 3, 5 & 6./KG 54 on that date. Could you give us some more info on that loss?

IV./KG 54 operated from Grottaglie from March 1st 1942 till May 19th 1943 so I presume they operated over Malta, the Mediteranian & North Africa during that time.

I'm in the office right now, but I'll have a look when I'm at home this evening if I can find something specific for that date.

Kind regards,
Rudi.

Re: IV.KG54
 

Maybe under the KSG2 they reported some losses at that time, but no in action..
In fact many things led me to think that a big batch of losses are missing for that period in the med. Aera, part. over Malta ...

Any info welcomed

Remi

Re: IV.KG54
 

Remi,

neither Radtke reports any action of IV./KG54 against Malta nor does Henry L. de Zeng & Douglas G. Stankey (Bomber Units of the Luftwaffe Vol 1) on this date.

Are you sure this was a IV./KG 54 loss?

What is your source of info?

Kind regards,
Rudi.

Re: IV.KG54
 

Ultra could hv mispelled IV. for 4.KG54, but first the II.KG54 was not in the area at that time , second it gave the Kz B3+.U , third if you want to write a book , I submit you the Malta-case it could revealed some surprises.

Other possibility, some crews with their planes in stage at Grosseto, could hv the "chance" to test their new knowledge

But interpretation of message heard by the brits could also be wrong

.....

Remi

Re: IV.KG54
 

Remi,

none of the KG 54 Staffeln used the code U as far as I know.

Staf I = B
1 Staffel = H
2 Staffel = K
3 Staffel = L

Staf II = C
4 Staffel = M
5 Staffel = N
6 Staffel = P

Staf III = D
7 Staffel = R
8 Staffel = S
9 Staffel = T

Staf IV = E
10 Staffel = X
11 Staffel = Y
12 Staffel = Z

But I could be wrong, of course.

Kind regards,
Rudi.

Re: IV.KG54
 

The case darken...

Re: IV.KG54
 

Could be with this Kz , having the U at the end the 10.ZG26... but no losses for that unit on 23.

Remi

Re: IV.KG54
 

Hi...

Sorry in advance if I'm wrong, but I think Rudi's Gruppe/Staffel listings have 'jumped' a Gruppe. The list shows IV. Gruppe Stab letter E, but with the V.Gruppe Staffel details, X, Y & Z.

The 'standard' IV.Gruppe would have had 'E' as Stab letter, but U, V, & W as the respective 10. 11. & 12.Staffel letters.

I would be the first to admit, though, that nothing was so 'cast in stone' with the Luftwaffe that there were no anomalies!

Regards...

Paul

Re: IV.KG54
 

Hi Paul,

KG 54 never had more then 4 Gruppen. In Radtke's loss list, the Staffeln of IV./KG 54 used X, Y & Z as code.
Whether Stab IV./KG 54 used E or F, I'm not sure. I think it was E, but I'm not 100 % certain.

Kind regards,
Rudi.

Re: IV.KG54
 

Hi, Rudi...

Thanks for keeping me right... :D.

Regards...

Paul

Re: IV.KG54
 

In 90 % of the case the 10/11/12. of IV. Gr. used U/V/W letters, but for the KG54 losses let appear E for ST/10. Y for 10. but few are documented, IV.KG54 was in Grottaglie from spring 42 to autumn 1943, for Convoy escort even second line unit could be used

Remi

Re: IV.KG54
 

Hello,

I digged out this relatively old thread as I have just found a photo of a Ju 88 that most likely belonged to IV./KG 54 in Luftwaffe im Focus Spezial No. 2 on page 26/27.

It was taken at Gardelegen (IV./KG 54 was based at Gardelegen in fall 1944). The fuselage code appears to be +UU, supporting Paul's statement that the standard code for IV./KG 54 would have been U, V, W for the 3 Staffeln (hence an aircraft of 10./KG 54).

However, another photo (to be published soon in a book) of another Ju 88 at Gardelegen shows the code +AX, which would support the statement by Rudi (X, Y, Z for the 3 Staffeln, hence also an aircraft of 10./KG 54).

It seems that both U,V,W and X,Y,Z - or at least both U and X for 10./KG 54 - had been used. Maybe at different times? Does anybody found some new information since this thread had originally been started?

Cheers,
Roger

Re: IV.KG54
 

Hi Roger,

The picture you are referring to was taken in April 1945, where as IV./KG54 was already dissolved October 20th 1944. So I don't think this aircraft belonged to IV./KG54.

Regards,
Rudi.

Re: IV.KG54
 

Hi Rudi,

Thanks for pointing that out. I was aware that the Gruppe was already dissolved at the time when the photo was taken. However, when the Gruppe was dissolved it may well be that its aircraft were no longer used and remained at Gardelegen until the end of the war. So, even if the Gruppe as such did not exist anymore, its aircraft may well have.

The photo in my collection of one of the Ju 88 at Gardelegen clearly shows the emblem of IV./KG 54, so at least one aircraft definately used to belong to that Gruppe (+AX). Since +UU was found just next to +AX I believe it once belonged to IV./KG 54 as well, especially after reading the older posts of this thread.

Regards,
Roger

Re: IV.KG54
 

Hi Roger,

Did a quick search & found that at least the following units were based at Gardelegen in 1944/1945:

ErgGp/LG1 : from somewhere in 1944 till 11 Jan 1945
Stab KG101 : February 1943 till November 1944
12./KG30 : February 1943 till somewhere in 1944

All these units flew the Ju 88 but the Staffel code U excludes Stab KG 101 & 12./KG30. Does anyone knows what the Staffel code letter for ErgGr/LG1 was?

I'm also attaching a scan of the picture in Luftwaffe im Focus Special #2.
Hopefully someone can identify the unit of the 2 Ju 88's.

The ??+UU doesn't looks like it's carrying the code B3 (for KG54).
The other Ju 88 is a mystery. Please note the 2 different type of propellor spinners.

Regards,
Rudi.