Ju86P/R losses
 

I was trying to make up a list of losses of Ju86P/R models and found very few of the 37 built. There are several mentions from various sources stating a Ju86 was shot down by a Spitfire over the Med. on 24th Aug 1942. I could not find this on the Q.M's returns only a Ju88A4 LI+NL wn 140095 missing from a mission to Alexandria probaly to enemy action on this day. Would this be the Spitfires victim or did a Ju 86 also fail to return on the 24th.
One of the websites concerning the Ju86 also said one was shot down over Moscow by Spitfires of the 16th.Regiment in early 1944, was one lost in such circumstances or is the year/type of aircraft wrong.
Any help appreciated,

Regards

Brian Bines

Re: Ju86P/R losses
 

Some coverage here:

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=17083

Re: Ju86P/R losses
 

Larry,

Thanks for that, all I picked for 2(F)/123 was 29-8-42 w.n. 5144 ditched following engine trouble crew rescued ( see Do24 site), 6-9-42 wn 5101 60% in crashlanding Bir el Abd following Feindbeschuss, 11-11-42 wn 0479 15% in crashlanding FIPI Gadurra, and 2-7-43 4U+IK crew of Ltn. Stock missing from mission to Alexandria,

Regards

Brian Bines

Re: Ju86P/R losses
 

Re: Ju86P/R losses
 

Hello Brian,

Here to complete, but if you hv the Wn of the planes converted , I could maybe give you more..

JU86P-2 860454 T5+VH T,+,M Aufkl,gr, OBDL Griechenland Herbst 1944 Jumo207B3V Turbolader MSD84 1940 Umbau P-2 1942 Umbau R-1 Tatoi FP-Eleusis A,I,2G/262-MAAF 955 Bilder
JU86P-3 5161 DD+GE 30 1 45 Rheinmetall-Borsig Sonder Prüfung gr, HW5 656
JU86R 5147 18 11 44 X HW5 619
JU86R-1 5105 13 8 44 Gardelegen HW5 566
JU86R-1 5105 27 8 44 Flensburg HW5 576
JU86R-1 5147 BD+NF 15 7 44 Fühlsbüttel HW5 548
JU86R-1 5147 Flak Schule 10 10 44 Dringend erfordert Fühlsbüttel HW5 601
JU86R-1 860285 T5+W8 1938 Aufkl,gr, OBDL Griechenland Herbst 1944 1941 Umbau R-1 Tatoi FP-Eleusis A,I,2G/262
2 1 45 Auf,gr, OBDL Eleusis Zerst,eig,tr, JU86P-2 860454 T5+VH 100
2 1 45 Auf,gr, OBDL Eleusis Zerst,eig,tr, JU86R-1 860285 T5+W8 100

Remi

Re: Ju86P/R losses
 

Hello Remi,

Good to hear from you and many thanks for the information, I would be grafeful for any details available,

Regards

Brian Bines

Re: Ju86P/R losses
 

Here are some more,

JU86R-1 5105 11 42 Bombenschacht+Bilgeräte eingebaut Merseburg
JU86R-1 5135 11 42 Bombenschacht+Bilgeräte eingebaut Merseburg
JU86R-2 5097 11 42 Bombenschacht+Bilgeräte i, Einbau Merseburg
JU86R-1 5147 11 42 Bombenschacht+Bilgeräte i, Einbau Merseburg
JU86P-1 462 0462- 11 42 Wird ausgeschlachtet v, Luftdienst Straussberg Merseburg
JU86P-1 5096 11 42 Wird ausgeschlachtet Merseburg
JU86P-2 5093 11 42 Wird ausgeschlachtet Merseburg
JU86P-2 5110 11 42 Wird ausgeschlachtet Merseburg
JU86P-3 433 0433- 11 42 Wird ausgeschlachtet Merseburg
JU86R-1 293 0293- 11 42 Wird ausgeschlachtet Merseburg
JU86P-2 294 0294- LDK-Straussberg 11 42 Ersatz f, 0462 Merseburg
JU86P-3 5126 11 42 An VHF Orianenburg abgegeben
JU86P-3 296 0296- 11 42 Nach erledigung des flugprogrammes abgegeben an VFH erprobung Dreiachsensteuerung
JU86R-1 454 0454- 11 42 Bildgeräte eingebaut flugprogramm dann abgegeben an VFH
JU86R-1 421 0421- 11 42 Bildgeräte eingebaut flugprogramm dann abgegeben an VFH
JU86R-1 5147 11 42 Beim Umrüstung Merseburg

Remi

Re: Ju86P/R losses
 

Remi,

Thanks again for the list,

Brian

Re: Ju86P/R losses
 

Am I reading that correctly? 16 losses of Ju86 in November 1942? What was going on?

Regards,
Bruce

Re: Ju86P/R losses
 

JU86P-1 462 0462- 11 42 Wird ausgeschlachtet v, Luftdienst Straussberg Merseburg
JU86P-1 5096 11 42 Wird ausgeschlachtet Merseburg
JU86P-2 5093 11 42 Wird ausgeschlachtet Merseburg
JU86P-2 5110 11 42 Wird ausgeschlachtet Merseburg
JU86P-3 433 0433- 11 42 Wird ausgeschlachtet Merseburg
JU86R-1 293 0293- 11 42 Wird ausgeschlachtet Merseburg

Not just those ones are written-offs , further nov. 42 is just the date where the notice was given .

The others hv to be modified to P/R models

Remi

Re: Ju86P/R losses
 

Brian,

Please see below extracted from "CEA Report 262 - January 2 1945 - Greece"


Ju 86 R-1 modified from Ju 86 P-2
Two aircraft of this type were found on Tatoi Airfiled.
Unfortunately, both were very badly damaged, particularly as far as the fuselage, cockpits and engines were concerned.

Markings Aircraft A:
T5 + VH
T5 in small black letters, VH large black letters.

Two main plates were recovered from the leading-edge of the port mainplane which gave the following information:-

MUSTER UMBAU JU 86P - 2
Wk Nr 0860454 1940
JU 86 R-1
UMBAU 1942
Wk Nr 454

From this is will be seen that this machine modified once in 1940, was again modified in 1942 to the sub-type R-1.

Painted on the fin were the figures 9454.

Engines

Jumo 207 B 3 V
Only one engine plate was recovered, that being from the port engine which gave the Works Nr. as M S D 84. Both engines were very badly damaged.

General Remarks

Unfortunately, the pressure cabin was so badly damaged that very little information could be obtained. Entrance is by means of a circular
hatch which is internally controlled by the lever operating two geared
lever arms in the belly framework of the cockpit.
The cabin was constructed with two skins of dural and Prespex.
The Perspex portions were fitted to T section steel frames; the tail portion of the T section in most cases had been lightened by drilling.
In shape, the nose was somewhat like the He 111.
Where the skin joined the framework it was noticed that close double rows of rivets had been used.
The controls passed through the cockpit bulkhead through gland boxes while the electrical leads are connected to a bakelite panel, the sockets of which appeared on either side.
No guns or gun mountings were found.

No de-icing devices for the main or tailplanes could be found. It was noticed that the petrol tanks carried in the fusalage were metal without the self-sealing covering. Camera fittings were found in the aft end of the fuselage.

Aircraft B:
This machine was, if possible, in an even worse state than the one described above, but the main data plates were recovered and read as follows:-

MUSTER JU 86 R-1 Wk Nr 086 - 0285.
BAUJAHR UMBAU 1941.

This aircraft thus appears to have been modified in 1941 direct from a standard Ju 86 into the high-altitude sub-type R-1.

FUSELAGE MARKINGS:-
5 CROSS W 8
(small black) (large black)

On fin in white 285

No difference in construction or fittings could be found in this aircaft with the one previously described.