Erich Kuhlmann JG53
 

Hello,
I am a new member seeking information on Erich Kuhlmann JG53 killed in 1940.
He had 8 victories, 4 in Spain and 4 during World War Two. I believe he may have flown with Wolfgang Lippert.
Thanks1

Re: Erich Kuhlmann JG53
 

It looks like there may have been a couple of officers by that name:


KÜHLMANN, Erich. 08.42 Oblt. and Nafü/Brigade “General Göring” (to14.10.42). 15.10.42 appt Nafü/Gren.Rgt. “Hermann Göring” (to 11.42). 11.42 Oblt., appt Nafü/Gren.Rgt. 1 “Hermann Göring” (to 04.43). 04.43 appt Nafü/ Pz.Gren.Rgt. 1 “Hermann Göring” (to 05.43).

Re: Erich Kuhlmann JG53
 

Wrong Kuhlmann Larry. From memory, I have photos of him in Brothers In Arms together with Lippert. Peter Cornwell will no doubtedly answer for me. I think he was Ofw at the time of his death

Re: Erich Kuhlmann JG53
 

Yep, that's why Doug and I don't have him. But I thought it somewhat interesting that there was a Luftwaffe Oberleutnant by the same name.

Re: Erich Kuhlmann JG53
 

Hi,

he flew with 3./JG53. According to fragments of his logbook between 20.08 and 30.08.40 he flew in "yellow 6".

Regards

Robert

Re: Erich Kuhlmann JG53
 

What is Brothers in Arms?
I would like to obtain a photo of Kuhlmann.
Also, are there any books I should purchase to read up on his wartime activities?

Re: Erich Kuhlmann JG53
 

All I have is missing over the Channel on 2-9-40 while flying with 3/JG53 in Bf109E-4 wn 1167. In the Ries/Ring book ''The Legion Condor'' (ISBN 0-88740-339-5 ) his Spanish victories are Uffz. Kuhlmann 13-6-38 one Curtiss, Fw.Kuhlmann 14-6-38 one Curtiss, 15-7-38 one Curtiss and 18-7-38 one Rata. Page117 of the book shows in Jan 1938 Uffz Kuhlmann was with the 4 Staffel (J/88)flying a He51 at Calamocha.

Re: Erich Kuhlmann JG53
 

Brothers in Arms is my book of the activities of 1/JG 53 (and I/JG 53) and 609 Sqn in 1940

Re: Erich Kuhlmann JG53
 

Hi, Brian

I have him listed as Kriegsgefangener... at least at the time of his loss the Luftwaffe got information that he was not missing, but a prisoner of war.

http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=117834

Anyone know of he became a POW? Or if he really went missing as Brian stated?

Also, there seems to have been an Uffz Erich Kuhlmann in II./JG 53 earlier in 1940, but as the rank is Uffz this is probably not the same person (Fw already in 1938):

http://www.ahs.no/ref_db/lw_loss_pub...?lossid=137305

Regards,
Andreas

Re: Erich Kuhlmann JG53
 

Re: Erich Kuhlmann JG53
 

Hi Peter,

according to information from his logbook (thanks James!) he was missing after taking off for last sortie at 17.15.

Regards

Robert

Re: Erich Kuhlmann JG53
 

Hello,
Do exist his flugbuch with his flights in Spain?
Thank you

Re: Erich Kuhlmann JG53
 

The logbooks are complete from 1937 to 1940. However, the flights in Spain are not recorded. His logbook simply continues with his numbered flights in Europe.

The only explanation I have is that he was under orders to keep the flights confidential.

Re: Erich Kuhlmann JG53
 

Hi Erich / Robert,
i would be interested to know whether his logbook records what a/c he was flying the day he was lost? ... yellow 6?

I would really be interested to know more about his flights during the Western Campaign leading up to the Battle Of Britain.
Did he record the a/c codes in the logbooks during this period?

Best regards,
Steve.

Re: Erich Kuhlmann JG53
 

Steve

It is my experience that some recorded Wk Nrs, some recorded Kennzeichen but whether someone recorded what he was flying when he went missing is another matter.

In respect of Spain, I was in touch with the daughter of Hans Karl Mayer of 1/JG 53-he had logbook entries up to his time in Spain and after and nothing at all for Spain so it would be intersting to know what the German orders were for logbooks in Spain

Chris

Re: Erich Kuhlmann JG53
 

Thanks Chris, yes i have seen examples of both Kennziffen and Werknummern recorded in Flugbuch's, just curious to know if anything further could be gleaned from Kuhlmanns, bearing in mind he flew through the Western Campaign and in the BoB!
It may have been possible to tie up some known W.Nr losses with new Kennziffern?

Best Regs,
Steve.

Re: Erich Kuhlmann JG53
 

Robert,


Thanks for the details from the Flugbuch which allow us to take this case forward. The only contemporary British reports filed on this incident were an RAF A.I.1.(g) Report (AIR 22/266) giving the date/time of the crash as ‘2/9 at 08.50 hours’ & a report filed by Ashford ARP Centre (timed 09.30 – 09.41) that recorded an ‘Enemy aircraft down Bridge Farm, Bilsington, MR 27/82. No damage to property or stock’. Given these timings, the fresh evidence from the Flugbuch precludes Oberfw Erich KUHLMANN as a candidate for the pilot killed at Bilsington and buried as an ‘Unknown’ at New Romney. So, as there are only two Bf109E pilots unaccounted for on that date, it therefore follows that the Unknown German Airman now interred in Grave 1-5-152 at Cannock Chase is most likely Lt Herbert RIEGEL as Erich KUHLMANN was lost over the Channel later in the day.


Another one for you, Joe.

Re: Erich Kuhlmann JG53
 

Here is a scan of a typical entry. I have sent Robert scans of the entire second logbook (1939 - 1940).

Re: Erich Kuhlmann JG53
 

Erich,

Thanks for sharing that with us. Can you tell us which tactical number(s) Kuhlmann was flying when he made his four claims, namely:

30.09.39 Curtiss Hawk 75
14.05.40 Blenheim
15.05.40 Bloch 151
02.09.40 Spitfire

Also what was the number of the plane was he flying (Bf 109E-1) on 28.05.40 when he had to made a belly-landing (30% damaged.)

Thanks in advance,
Tom

Re: Erich Kuhlmann JG53
 

28.05.40 - this was another Kuhlmann (4./JG53)!

Robert

Re: Erich Kuhlmann JG53
 

Quite right, Robert, my mistake. He had the same first name but was an Unteroffizier in 4./JG 53.

Thanks,
Tom

Re: Erich Kuhlmann JG53
 

Erich, thanks very much for sharing the Flugbuch entry with us.
Very interesting indeed.
I echo Tom's request for further information on his earlier flights, if you'd be willing to share this with us?
Any further information would be most appreciated.

Kindest regs,
Steve.

Re: Erich Kuhlmann JG53
 

There are 809 flights entered in the logbooks, and I do not have time at the moment to transcribe them into a typed format. If you have a specific date request I will try my best to assist. For the most part the entries are basic; pilot, aircraft type, departure and arrival destinations, and time of flight. In the pre-war book there is some mention of aircraft serial numbers but this practice stops in the wartime book. The book simply states BF109E. There are several entries in the 1940 time period with additional details of fighting French or British aircraft.
There are no flights logged for Spain. He lists flight 261 on 18.10.37 and flight 262 on 15.9.38. The two entries are in different hands indicating a lapse of time. Interestingly, some of the entries appear to have been entered by Kuhlmann but most appear to be from a clerk.

Re: Erich Kuhlmann JG53
 

Kuhlmann's last combat claim was a Hurricane on 02.09.1940. His log records flying from Neuville with 17 other aircraft, departing at 17:15. Is there a record of the Hurricane that he downed?

Re: Erich Kuhlmann JG53
 

Thanks for that Erich!
do you have at hand the details of the a/c flown on the dates of his kills previously. Either Werknummer or tactical codes?

Rgs,
Steve.

Re: Erich Kuhlmann JG53
 

Please forgive mistakes in transposing German wording. Robert has copies of the original and he would be able to provide the correct wording.

549, 30.09.39, Kuhlmann, BF109E, +13, Greuziabewailung, Wiesbaden, 13:43, Wiesboden, 15:10, Flugdauer 87, 1 Curtiss, Abyschuss cu.

682,14.05.40 Kuhlmann, BF109E, +10, Frei Jagd i.R. Sedan, Kirchberg, 18:50, Triar, 20.20, Flugdauer 95, Blenheim, Wellington

686, 15.05.40, Kuhlmann, BF109E, +6, Frei Jagd i.R. Sedan, Kirchberg, 15:20, Kirchberg, 16:50, Flugdauer 90, Bloch 151

807-809, 2.9.40, Kuhlmann, three flights from Neuville...
a. +3, Dover-Ashford, 8:25- 9:40, Flug 60, Fb. m. Hurricane u Spitfire, Spitfire Abgsischuann (Haupt. Lippert 1 Hurricane)
b. +3, Uber fri Averuy, 10:00 - 11:25, Flug 85,
c. +17, V.K.-Verbaiden, u.d. Theruscurindy, 17:15 Did not return from combat. There is a note stating logbook is correct and signed.

Re: Erich Kuhlmann JG53
 

Erich,

Many thanks! That is exactly the information I was hoping you could supply.

Regards,
Tom

Re: Erich Kuhlmann JG53
 

Hallo Erich

Flug Nummer 549, Grund für den Flug war Grenzüberwachung.

Gruß Christian

Re: Erich Kuhlmann JG53
 

Christian, for the benefit of us non speaking Germans, means??

Rgs,
Steve.

Re: Erich Kuhlmann JG53
 

Border patrol.

Robert

Re: Erich Kuhlmann JG53
 

Many thanks indeed Robert!

Rgs,
Steve.

Re: Erich Kuhlmann JG53
 

Hi Steve

It goes about one word "Grenzüberwachung", take it easy:)

Christian

Re: Erich Kuhlmann JG53
 

As a direct result of vital info provided by Robert and Peter Cornwell in this thread, it has been possible for the WASt to eliminate Erich Kuhlmann from only two contenders for an unnamed grave at Cannock Chase, Block 1, Row 5, grave 152, this is now to be named as that of Lt Herbert Riegel.
Cheers
Joe