3(F)121 Operation 7 August 1940
 

According to Ultra transcripts an aircraft of "3(F)121" flew an operation on 7 August 1940 from 0630 to 1100. The aircraft was 7A+GL.

Can anyone confirm:

From where the operation was flown.
The objective.
The aircraft type.

Re: 3(F)121 Operation 7 August 1940
 

Hi,

Ju 88 recon mission over south-western English coast.

Regards

Robert

Re: 3(F)121 Operation 7 August 1940
 

3.(F)/Aufkl.Gr. 121 was based at Dinard on that date.

Re: 3(F)121 Operation 7 August 1940
 

Thank you both!

My next (related!) question is:

On the 7 August 1940 the Luftwaffe flew either bombing, recce or mining operations in the Thames Estuary area.

Does anyone have any knowledge of the type and number of missions flown, the timings thereof and the units/aircraft involved?

Re: 3(F)121 Operation 7 August 1940
 

Andy,

This will be in our Heinrich Weiss "Coastal War" manuscript for that date, which Robert S. is translating for the EOE WG. We aren't finished with that date yet, but I'm sure that he'll chime in here with the info that you need from the original German text. Weiss is very complete about this sort of thing for that period.

Regards,

Re: 3(F)121 Operation 7 August 1940
 

Larry

Thanks greatly!

At present I am trying to make some sense of fragmented details from some ULTRA transcripts. Lots of interesting stuff there.

I am especially interested in Convoy CW9 on 8 Aug 1940 and the associated air actions running from 7 August when the convoy formed-up off Southend.

Previous sources have claimed that the convoy was detected (at night) by Freya radar at Cap Gris Nez as it passed through the Dover Straits. I am by no means certain this was the case, and not certain that Freya was yet operational there. To me it seems more likely the convoy was picked up pre and post assembly by aerial recconaissance - but I am yet to be persuaded either way!

I will, of course, keep you in mind for any snippets or nuggets for EOE.

Re: 3(F)121 Operation 7 August 1940
 

Andy,

According to Heinrich Weiss' narrative for August 7, 1940, 'At 19.30 hours the observer station at Wissant reported a large convoy about 5 sea miles south of Dungeness heading west. This was the English Channel convoy CW9 the first of its kind since the unfortunate CW8 of previous days. It had sailed that afternoon from the Thames with 25 ships mostly colliers. Off Sheerness it collected 9 RN trawlers some of which carried captive barrage balloons for the first time'.

I'm sure that Robert will add to this if my German has let me down. There seems to have been nothing specific picked up by 7 aerial reconnaissance sorties made by Luftflotte 2 that morning but I will send you the details as I suspect that they may refer to ships gathering to form CW9.

An 06.10 start by 3.(F)/121 was a Ju88 tasked with reconnaissance over south-west England and the Bristol Channel especially Falmouth, Milford Haven, and Swansea. Mission was aborted early due to 10/10 cloud cover of the area.

Re: 3(F)121 Operation 7 August 1940
 

A 3/31 ac operating in the same area reported quite a lot of shipping 0715-0740 hrs

Re: 3(F)121 Operation 7 August 1940
 

Chris,

Just so, Luftflotte 3 tasked 2 Do17Ps of 3.(F)/31 that started at 6.10 hours to recce Falmouth and shipping in LQ 15W/50,60,70.

Re: 3(F)121 Operation 7 August 1940
 

Hi,

Peter your translation is OK.
I think you can send Andy also details of Luftwaffe activity (K.Fl.Gr.106) over Thames Estuary (page 1442) because he was also interested in this subject.

Regards

Robert

Re: 3(F)121 Operation 7 August 1940
 

All interesting stuff, and thank you one and all for adding to what I have.

The two Dornier 17's were (according to ULTRA) apparently 5D+EL and PH+NX (???) the latter sounding rather like factory codes to me, but I stand to be corrected! Either way, 5D+EL was tasked to recce shipping in squares 50,60 and 70 and PH+NX was to recce shipping in Falmouth harbour.

On the 8th we also have 3.(F)/31 sending out 5D+HL for a similar mission at 05.00 and another (5D+KL) recce to 50/60/70 to check Falmouth and weather and taking off at 16.30.

There is some difference in the timings you quote, Peter, (06.10 as opposed to 04.10) and I am wondering if this might be explained by the various use of German (Central European) and British times here? It was getting light around 05.00 (British time) just as a point of interest, but the timings do in any event throw up a question that further examination of Ultra would have probably eventually answered for me; that is, what times were being used in Ultra? Were the transcripts "converted" to British time? Equally, what time is being used by Heinrich Weiss and EOE?

Nick Beale might be best placed to answer the question about ULTRA timings.

I am still hopeful that we will get some absolute confirmation that a L/W unit observed CW9 assembling in the Thames Estuary during the day on 7 August.

Re: 3(F)121 Operation 7 August 1940
 

Peter

This was not the first use of barrage balloon ships. They had first been used on Convoy CE8 that sailed from Falmouth on 31 July 1940 at 1900. Fliegerkorps V also noted on 1 August a convoy of merchant ships off Great Yarmouth towing barrage balloons. There are a good many reference to CW9 being the first to employ balloons but this is incorrect.

As a matter of interest, do we know if the "observer station at Wissant" was the Mk1 human eyeball, or Freya?? From the timing (1930 hrs) and with quite reasonable visibility one must assume the convoy to have been plainly visible in any event.

Re: 3(F)121 Operation 7 August 1940
 

Andy,

The times quoted by Weiss are CET/GST whereas I am using GMT/BST in the EOE listings and the reference to 'first use of towed balloons' was a direct quote from Weiss' narrative. My guess is that the observer post at Wissant was just that and that Freya did not figure in the equation though previous commentators may well have assumed so.

Re: 3(F)121 Operation 7 August 1940
 

Peter

Thank you for the time clarification.

I agree re Wissant. I believe all previous commentators have assumed the Convoy was picked up by Freya at night when this was not the case at all. In any event, and although ULTRA were picking up references to Freya as early as August I don't think it was fully operational. I need to check R V Jones but I also have a feeling the British had no idea what Freya actually was at this time....but thats another issue!

Yes, I did realise this was Weiss' narrative but you/Larry may wish to correct the error stating that balloons were first employed on CW9.

Thanks as ever for your assistance.