Bf 109 of JG 5 lost on 7th June 1944
 

Good night to all!
I am researching a Mustang ( USAAF ) claim that ocurred on the 7th June 1944 and a "possible" candidate is Ofhr Jürgen Fricke from .3/JG 5 aboard a Bf 109 G-6 werknummer 163830.
Could someone give me more light to 3rd Staffel of JG 5 activities that day? Were they in combat or this lone loss ocurred on a routine reconaissance? Any more DATA about this loss ( IF against RAF or USAAF ) would be must welcomed too.
Another question is the codes of this particular G-6. Any references?
Thank you so much in advance
Adriano

Re: Bf 109 of JG 5 lost on 7th June 1944
 

This is what Frappe has. We do not, apparently, have a GQM or VLM source for this.

Bf 109G-6, 163830, Fricke, Ofhr. Jürgen, 3./JG 5. VT+EE, 07-Jun-44, KIA, probably in Luftkampf., Frappé, La LW face au débarquement allié, p.34, 313, Amiens, 100%,F

I./JG 5 was up in air combat at least twice that day as Weissenberger made claims in the morning and afternoon.

Re: Bf 109 of JG 5 lost on 7th June 1944
 

Many thanks JOHN, for adding the codes of this machine. I will try to cross-check with USAAF claims and see what kind of aircraft Weissenberger shot down that day...maybe this is what I am looking for...
THANKS again!
Adriano

Re: Bf 109 of JG 5 lost on 7th June 1944
 

Hi.

The VLM of Fricke does not state any information with regards to the reasons for his death, other than the fact that it was in aerial combat. (Column 10 "Gefallen" is filled with "Ja. L." which means he was killed in aerial combat, "L." for "Luftkampf")

I think the reason for the rather short VLM's for this unit during this period was that they had lost a lot of pilots and senior personnel shortly before this date.

It is possible that these VLM's were the very first Weissenberger had to fill out, possibly in one large batch on or shortly before July 18th, over a month after the demise of Fricke.

Regards,
Andreas B

Re: Bf 109 of JG 5 lost on 7th June 1944
 

So, Andreas, you have the VLM for this loss? Would like to see it!

cheers!

Re: Bf 109 of JG 5 lost on 7th June 1944
 

JG 5 claims on 7th June 1944 ( morning ) x 78th FG claims and losses:

07.06.44 Hptm. Theo Weissenberger Stab I./JG 5 P-47

07.06.44 Oblt. Müller 3./JG 5 P-47 �� SE-9 östw. Montdidier: 800 m. 09.10 Film C. 2027/II Anerk: Nr.19

07.06.44 Hptm. Theo Weissenberger Stab I./JG 5 P-47

�� SE-9: S.W. Montdidier: 700 m. 09.27 Film C. 2027/II Anerk: Nr.8

07.06.44 Hptm. Theo Weissenberger Stab I./JG 5 P-47 �� S.W. Montdidier: 800 m. 09.26 Film C. 2027/II Anerk: Nr.7

Two P-47 D shot down ( 78th FG ): WZ-T ( Lt Harry H Just Jr ) and WZ-H ( Lt Harold H Rice Jr )
78th FG claimed two victories against BF 109 around 09:15 ( Lt Mayo and Covelle ) near Montdidier A/F

56th FG x JG 26 ( between 18:45 and 19:00 )

Lt Col ZEMKE claimed 3 Fw 190 between 18:40 and 19:00hs near Dreux / Evreux
2/Lt Sam B. DALE claimed 0,5 x Fw 190 near Craches between 18:45-19:00 shared with 1/Lt Marvin H Becker ( 0, 5 kill )
I do suppose that the claim submitted by 1/Lt Joseph R Curtis may have ocurred on the same combat/same hour and place...

Could it BE the two 1./JG 26 losses ( Uffz Hans-Georg Becker and Uffz Helmut Hüttig ) both shot down and killed between 30/40km SW of ROUEN?

1st Staffel of JG 26 claimed two victories, but apparently on anothe combat ( 4 hours of difference ):

07.06.44 Ltn. Waldemar Söffing: 18 1./JG 26 P-47

�� UA-1: 800 m. [Bonnebosq/N.W. Lisieux] 16.01 Film C. 2027/II Anerk: Nr.103
07.06.44 Oblt. Max Groth: 1 1./JG 26 P-47 �� UA-1: 800 m. [Bonnebosq/N.W. Lisieux] 16.01 Film C. 2027/II VNE: ASM

56 FG x LUFTWAFFE around noon ( 12:40-13:00hs - early afternoon )

Lt-Col GABRESKI claimed 2 victories EAST of Dreux ( a Bf 109 and a Fw 190 )
F/O Steven Gerrick claimed a Bf 109 at 12:40 SE of Houdan ( ENE of Dreux )
F/L Boleslaw M Gladych also claimed a BF 109 ( same place and hour )
2/Lt Joel I Popplewell also claimed a Bf 109 ( same place and hour )
1/Lt Robert J Rankin ( idem )
1/Lt George E Bostwick ( also claimed a Bf 109 near GRANDVILLIERS A/F around 13:00hs )
1/Lt Mark L Moseley and 2/Lt Jack W Pierce apparently shared a Bf 109 around 13:00hs same place

Could 56th FG on this noon mission have clashed with II/JG 11, IV/JG 27 and I/JG 5?
I do not have a clear picture IF the Luftwaffe operated joining forces ( different Gruppes and JG flying together ); or IF the Gruppen operated independently, by their own means and with different objectives...JG 2 seems to have been involved more around CAEN, as well as JG 3...

ANY COMMENTS and new data would be welcomed
Adriano

Re: Bf 109 of JG 5 lost on 7th June 1944
 

I also noticed a single Bf 109 G-6 ( yellow 9, werknummer 163680 ) shot down apparently ALONE and a bit far away from the Normandy sector, near Romilly, which is to the ESE of Paris/ NNW of Troyes.
This machine came from .6/JG 3 and was flown by Uffz Egon Spinner ( WIA ).
Was it II/JG 3 in combat near Paris? Does anyone do have the time of this particular machine being hit? Uffz Spinner jumped with parachute or made a crash landing?
The machine I am looking for MAY have fallen alone, a straggler or a Bf 109 coming to land...
Again, ANY light on this loss would be welcomed
Adriano

Re: Bf 109 of JG 5 lost on 7th June 1944
 

Hello Adriano,

For II./JG 3 I have the following info relating to 7 June 1944:

1) near Letzlingen, Me 109G-6, w/nr 163914, gelbe 16, 6./JG 3, Uffz Kurt Steinacker. KIA. During transferflight from Sachau to Evreux hit the ground near Letzlingen.

2) Unknown location, Me 109G-6, w/nr 163680, gelbe 9, 6./JG 3, Uffz Egon Spinner MIA - returned WIA later to unit. Task: transferflight from Sachau to Evreux. Last located near Romilly and then missing.

Best regards,
Rob

Re: Bf 109 of JG 5 lost on 7th June 1944
 

ROB,
Many thanks for pointing me the second loss of II/JG 3 on 7th June 1944. MAY I ask you, if you do know if the II Gruppe encountered Allied aircraft, or if those losses were mainly due to engine problems?
Yours
Adriano
PS: Those two losses are more likely close to what I am looking for...than the losses of JG 5...

Re: Bf 109 of JG 5 lost on 7th June 1944
 

Hello Adriano,

For II./JG 3 on 7 June 1944 additional losses:

5 x Me 109G-6 - Betriebstörung/Unfall, unknown location; names of the pilots alas unknown;

3 x Me 109G-6 - Feindflug, ohne Feindberührung, unknown location; names of the pilots alas unknown.

Please note that the transferflight from Sachau to Evreux was also no Feindflug. The unit was led by Bruno Gruppenadjutant Oberleutnant Max-Fischer. Refueling took place at Frankfurt-Eschborn, but thereafter, due to bad weather, 10 aircraft were lost, the other dispersed, Only Fischer reached the destination. This operation was a fiasco and it was determined that Fischer should be court-martialed.
Which USA claim are you trying to link..?

Best regards,
Rob

Re: Bf 109 of JG 5 lost on 7th June 1944
 

Rob,
Am trying to match a claim submitted by an F-6C Mustang flown by Capt John H HOEFKER ( 10th PRG ); however I do not have more data about this claim ( Hour and place of combat ); so I am sorting out all claims and eliminating those who matches Allied claims ( like in 78th and 56th FG case )....huge task, but we must do our best with what we do have in hands....
Yours
Adriano

Re: Bf 109 of JG 5 lost on 7th June 1944
 

Hello Adriano,

Capt John Herman Hoefker of 15 TRS claimed an Me-109 over Le Mans A/D at 0800 hours of 7 June 1944.

Source: Frank Olynyk - Stars and Bars, page 340.

Hope this helps,

Ota

Re: Bf 109 of JG 5 lost on 7th June 1944
 

Hello OTA,
Thank you so much for your precious information...
I will have to check with some files back home, but it seems probable that his claim could have been against a machine from JG 53. THANK YOU SO MUCH!
May I ask you ( I sent you a message ), IF you can quote from this source ( Star and Bars, pg. 340 ) more details about HOUR and place of his other claims? It would help me considerably on my searches to match his claims...
I DO THANK YOU A LOT, Ota!
Yours
Adriano Baumgartner

Re: Bf 109 of JG 5 lost on 7th June 1944
 

Hello Adriano,

I have sent you a PM.

Regards,

Ota

Re: Bf 109 of JG 5 lost on 7th June 1944
 

Thanks a lot OTA!
If I can reciprocate you, in any way, please advise me!
Yours
Adriano