14th FG mission on 8 February 1945
 

I would like to know more about the 14th FG activity on 8 February 1945.

What I know is that it met CR.42s of NSGr. 7 and shot down probably 3, while an unknown German pilot claimed a P-38 shot down.

The two losses I know for the 14th FG are both near Pochlarn, Austria, about 130 km more north, and reportedly by AA and small arms fire.

Known losses:

P-38L-1-LO 44-25038 - 1st Lieutenant Frederick R. Branscombe killed - Headquarters, 14th Fighter Group - MACR 12138

P-38L-1-LO 44-25020 (14th FG) - Captain Kyle J. Pinney Jr. - MACR 12139

The fate of Captain Pinney is unclear to me. It is not buried in Europe and is not on the POW online database either.

Thanks in advance

Re: 14th FG mission on 8 February 1945
 

Hi,

Enlisted at Ft. Custer on 28th November 1941.

See the NARA website for more details about him at the time.

Alex

Re: 14th FG mission on 8 February 1945
 

NSGr. 7
2. Staffel operating from Varaždin along the Croatian-Hungarian border:
8 February 1945: C.R.42 belonging to the Gruppenstab shot down (location not reported). 8 February 1945: 3 C.R.42s from 2. Staffel shot down by Allied fighters (location not reported), Hptm. Eduard Jacob + 2 KIA.

Since the little Falco biplanes operated at very low altitude, the P-38s must have broken away from the bombers to strafe targets in northeastern Croatia on the way back to Italy and ran into the biplanes by pure chance.

HTH,

Larry

Re: 14th FG mission on 8 February 1945
 

Losses in the QMG returns:

08.02.45 Stab/NSGr. 7 F Feindbeschuß
Fiat Cr 42 90897 90 - - -

08.02.45 2./NSGr. 7 F Jägerbesch. (Feindb.) 100
Fiat Cr 42 90841
Hptm. Jacob F 1(1) - -

08.02.45 2./NSGr. 7 F Jägerbesch. (Feindb.) 100
Fiat Cr 42 9632
Ofw. Harnack F 1 - -

08.02.45 2./NSGr. 7 F Jägerbesch. (Feindb.) 100
Fiat Cr 42 8864
Gefr. Schreiber F 1 - -

2./NSG 7 was addressed at Varazdin on 24 December 1944 (ULTRA BT 611)

ULTRA KO 565 (early April 1945) reports Stab, 2. and 3./NSG 7 (Gorica). 1./NSG 7 (Graz) disbanded in accordance with Luftflotte 4's order.

Re: 14th FG mission on 8 February 1945
 

Thanks for the replies, but actually I allready had the details of the German side, what I am lacking is an Allied view of the events.

Laurent

Re: 14th FG mission on 8 February 1945
 

Much to my surprise, there is a published unit history for this group:

http://www.amazon.com/14th-Fighter-G.../dp/0764329219

If this doesn't give you the detail you want, then you can ask AFHRA for the Group's mission or after-action reports for February 1945.

Re: 14th FG mission on 8 February 1945
 

Laurent

Checking the book by Lambert and Appendix A, he actually ONLY list Capt Kyle Pinney as KIA on the 8th (near Ybbs, Austria)
!st Lt Fred Branscombe is listed as KIA on the 9th, strangely at the same place....
Checking the text however we can see this is a misprint since both are reported as lost to AA fire during strafing near Ybbs in Austria.

Lambert says further:
"On 8 February, during a sweep near Vienna that followed bomber escort, the 37th Squadron was attacking rail target´s when Lt Lawrence Bach spotted a flight of boogies in the distance. He gave chase and overtook some eight biplane trainers flying in tight formation. Bach dispatched two, probably destroyed a third, and damaged a fourth."

Since Pinney is listed as belonging to 48th FS while Branscombe is listed only as 14th FG, the latter possibly belonging to the HQ flight. The impression given anyway is that Pinney and Branscombe was on a totaly different mission to that of the 37th FS with Bach being the only scorer.

Things gets complicated because Lambert also states that the 48th also flow a five-ship mission that day escorting a recce plane in the Munich area. Again the impression however is that this was an entirely different mission to the two above....

Cheers
Stig

Re: 14th FG mission on 8 February 1945
 

That location is puzzling and questionable. The little single-engine aircraft used by NS and Aufkl. units in Croatia occasionally were flown to Graz for overhaul or engine replacement, but I have never heard of any going all the way to Wien, especially at a time of extreme fuel rationing and the high danger of running into Allied fighters over southeastern Austria.

Larry

Re: 14th FG mission on 8 February 1945
 

And toward the end, NSG 7 aircraft were withdrawn to operate from there. I never heard of them going to Wien either. Why would they?

Re: 14th FG mission on 8 February 1945
 

Larry, thanks for pointing out the history book, and Stig thanks for posting there what he had inside.

The American Battle Monument Comission website confirms that Branscombe was lost on the 8th, as did the various MACR lists available here and there.

The Ybbs listed on the book should be Ybbs an der Donau (http://maps.google.fr/maps?hl=fr&q=Y...-8&sa=N&tab=wl).

Both MACR indicate that the losses took place at Pöchlarn, ten km east of this location (http://maps.google.fr/maps?hl=fr&q=P...-8&sa=N&tab=wl). By the way the railway following the Danube is passing in both these places.

The now defunct website "Losses over Yugoslavia" was listing all four CR 42 losses over Croatia, and the three shot down by P-38 in the Zagreb/Agram-Gorica area.

Re: 14th FG mission on 8 February 1945
 

Interesting aspects Guys

I also checked Olynyk's claims lists and can add the following with regard to Bach
The time when he made his claims was between 12.16H to 12.32H
The place is not listed, but only the coordinates, 46.54N/15.31E
Now if my map-reading is not completely flipped I make this to be south of Graz and rather close to the border of Jugoslavia. So maybe 37th FS was on its way back from the Vienna area. I also feel these coordinates are much more in line with where we could expect NSGr 7 to be flying....

I also note that the same coordinates are used for all four claims which might indicate that's when Bach spotted his victims. If they were heading south when spotted the combat might even have taken place south of the border when he caught up with them.

Cheers
Stig

Re: 14th FG mission on 8 February 1945
 

Very probable, Stig, very probable. It was common practice for 15th AAF fighter escort groups to descend to low altitude on the way back from missions further north and beat up Axis airfields and other targets in Croatia. They destroyed some aircraft on the ground from time-to-time, but air action was rare because of the paucity of Axis aircraft based there. What little there was didn't do much flying after December 1944 because of fuel rationing and the weather.

Re: 14th FG mission on 8 February 1945
 

The engagement between the CR.42s and P-38s was over Croatia and the two P-38 losses occurred over Austria. Despite of this, the CR.42s claimed one kill against the Lightnings. It was found by me in BA-MA in a German document, which contains some details about the mission.
It was the last biplane claim of the aviation history but unfortunately, the name of the pilot was not mentioned.

Re: 14th FG mission on 8 February 1945
 

The hour of the claim is interesting as it was before the bombing...

450th BG listed in its mission report it bombed Vienna on 1251 hrs. I bet all 15th Air Force units will use the same time zone by reporting hours...

The 5th Wing B-17s bombed between 1224 and 1240 hrs.

So possibly the CR 42 were seen while the fighters were flying north... and the juicy targets were enough for some pilots to bounce them.