16 Ar196s damaged, Ratzeburgersee, 24 April 1945
 

On the afternoon of 24 April 1945, a section of 41 Squadron spotted 20 Ar196s parked on the south-eastern shore of Lake Ratzeburg. Sixteen were in a straight line and four around a corner in the shore. The section flew down the first sixteen and holed them all, but they failed to explode, suggesting to the section that they were unfuelled at the time.

Can anyone suggest which unit this may have been, please? Michael Holm's excellent site (http://www.ww2.dk) suggests that several units flew these aircraft, thereunder Bordfliegergruppe 196, Küstenfliegergruppe 706, Seeaufklärungsgruppe 125, 126, 130 and 131, III./KG100 and 1. and 3./KG200. None appears to be conclusive, though circumstantially KG200 appears to be the most likely of these.

Does anyone have any information on this incident, or can they suggest which unit may have been located here near the end of April 1945?

Thanks
Steve

Re: 16 Ar196s damaged, Ratzeburgersee, 24 April 1945
 

Re: 16 Ar196s damaged, Ratzeburgersee, 24 April 1945
 

They didn't have to belong to a functioning unit, they may just have been "in storage." I think elements of Bordfl. Gr. 196 were still flying over the Baltic in 1945, on convoy protection, but there may have been other surplus Arados just parked up.

Re: 16 Ar196s damaged, Ratzeburgersee, 24 April 1945
 

When this area was occupied by british forces in May 1945, they
found the following Ar 196's:
Schleswig-See 3 aircraft, Kiel-Holtenau 4 aircraft, List on Sylt 5 aircraft,
Tarnewitz-See 27 aircraft (most in good condition when inspected there on 21.05.1945).
In addition 4 aircraft were found in Denmark and 12 in Norway. 2 Ar 196 were on board the cruiser "Prinz Eugen".
No mention was made about aircraft at Ratzeburger See. Would this lake first be occupied by Soviet forces ?

Re: 16 Ar196s damaged, Ratzeburgersee, 24 April 1945
 

Did they note the Wn ??

Rémi

Re: 16 Ar196s damaged, Ratzeburgersee, 24 April 1945
 

Very much to my regret, they did not. At least not in the lists I have seen.

Re: 16 Ar196s damaged, Ratzeburgersee, 24 April 1945
 

The planes found in airfields are well known, but I never seen a doc. of what they found floating, the lists show some other floatplanes ??

Remi

Re: 16 Ar196s damaged, Ratzeburgersee, 24 April 1945
 

Thanks Gents

I appreciate your helpful feedback. This would definitely have been in the British / US zone rather than the Russian.

There were actually 20 of the aircraft lined up along the shore, but as only 16 were hit, they went back past the following day and shot up the remaining four. On this occasion, however, they were met with Flak and one of the aircraft was hit, making an emergency landing at Fassberg.

This second attack serves as a confirmation of the location, so I wonder what happened to the aircraft between 24 April and 5 May? Almost two weeks, so if the aircraft were only holed they probably took little to repair and could've flown just about anywhere. I wonder if any of those listed by 'Seaplanes' were some of 'my' 20 on Lake Ratzeburg...? Guess that fact is impossible to discover today.

'Seaplanes', any indication of which unit/s the Schleswig-See, Kiel-Holtenau, Sylt and Tarnewitzsee aircraft were with?

Failing that, is there another similar floatplane, that the Ar196 could have been confused wit by 41 Squadron's pilots?

Thanks
Steve

Re: 16 Ar196s damaged, Ratzeburgersee, 24 April 1945
 

Hi

I found a file at the PRO last Thursday labelled Claims and Losses in April 1845.

The attack listed in TOCH is NOT listed in the file, which has a comprehensive day by day log. On 23/4/45 in the file it states "20a/c noted on Moritz Lake, type unknown". Could this be the Lake in question?

Tony

Re: 16 Ar196s damaged, Ratzeburgersee, 24 April 1945
 

Hi Correction to my last post, it was 1945!!!

Tony

Re: 16 Ar196s damaged, Ratzeburgersee, 24 April 1945
 

Müritz-see, some 50 km NW Berlin , between Parchim nd Neubrandenburg ... probably Tony

Re: 16 Ar196s damaged, Ratzeburgersee, 24 April 1945
 

Remi

Many thanks for looking up this lake.

I will show you this file when you come over next and you can copy it. There are many German losses listed that would not have been reported to QM6 as it was too late in the war.

Regards

Tony

Re: 16 Ar196s damaged, Ratzeburgersee, 24 April 1945
 

Hi
Out of curiosity..
Is this the lake discussed say about ten years ago,( on a board I can't remember [maybe about military vehicles?] ).
Where there are some AR-196's still on the bottom of the fresh water lake and couldn't be moved due to risk of contamination of the water ?
The details and location were confirmed to me, but it was many computers ago and I have lost the details.
cheers
Jerry

Re: 16 Ar196s damaged, Ratzeburgersee, 24 April 1945
 

Jerry

That was a lake or reservoir near Tallinn, Estonia IIRC.

regards
Dave

Re: 16 Ar196s damaged, Ratzeburgersee, 24 April 1945
 

Hi dave,
Thanks for the info,
and proving my memory hasn't totally gone west .....
cheers
Jerry

Re: 16 Ar196s damaged, Ratzeburgersee, 24 April 1945
 

Hello!

Interesting news. Haven't seen not a thing about them in the Estonian forum(s) that I read. Makes me doubt the whole thing.

The location would be lake Ülemiste just opposite (West) the Tallinn airport. But I very much doubt there would be any Ar 196s on the bottom. It was AGr 127 with Arado 95 based there. Teilstaffel Reval/BFGr 196 with Ar 196 left Tallinn already late 1942. German ships may have had one or two Ar 196s with them during 1944 but those would not have been based at the lake? IIRC the ships didn't visit Tallin either. Tallinn was occupied by Soviets in September 1944.

Cheers,
Kari

Re: 16 Ar196s damaged, Ratzeburgersee, 24 April 1945
 

Gents

Thanks very much for your feedback. Tony, may I ask the file reference for the NA file you mention, "Claims and Losses in April 1945"?

Thanks for the suggestion of the Müritz-see, Remi and Tony, though I'm not sure if it is relevant, as it appears too far away, and therefore to large a scope of error.

41 was operating out of Celle on an armed reconnaissance in the Lübeck-Wismar areas. They damaged some MET near Lake Schwerin and on their way home to Celle again, came across the Arados on Lake Ratzeburg, which is about 135km NW of the Mürtiz-see. Therefore I'm not sure if it's onein the same, but thanks nonetheless for the information, whcih is most appreciated.

Kind regards
Steve

Re: 16 Ar196s damaged, Ratzeburgersee, 24 April 1945
 

Hi Kari

I think there was supposed to be three of them, but it is possible they have been mis identified.

Dave

Re: 16 Ar196s damaged, Ratzeburgersee, 24 April 1945
 

Steve

Its HW2/98, each page A4 width but about a metre long.

Tony

Re: 16 Ar196s damaged, Ratzeburgersee, 24 April 1945
 

Hi Tony

Thanks for your reply and PM; most appreciated.

Regards
Steve