He-111 Poland Campaign 1939
 

Hello All,
I was hoping someone could locate some actual wartime photographs of a He-111 with the large wing cross markings shown below. A couple years ago someone posted a couple photos showing the aircraft with the large wing crosses. I remember one of the photos was of two young guys smiling for the camera looking back from the glass nose with another He-111 visible through the nose. Unfortunately that forum shut down and I haven't had any luck finding them since. I'm pretty sure the photos were from a book but I'm not positive.

Here's the info from the die-cast offer:

Heinkel He111P-2
Luftwaffe 2./KG 27, Poland, September 1939

Not sure how accurate the info is.

Thanks,
aeroeng

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k4...200_01_lrg.gif
"image used with permission from The Flying Mule"

Re: He-111 Poland Campaign 1939
 

Hi,

this is not PC. Such oversized crosses were introduced in ca. mid-October 1939.

Regards

Robert

Re: He-111 Poland Campaign 1939
 

Thank you Robert for the info. What is ca.? It sounds like you're familiar with the oversized crosses. Do you know where I can find some actual photos of an aircraft with them on it?

Thanks,
aeroeng

Re: He-111 Poland Campaign 1939
 

Hi,

ca. is approx.
There are many books with photos of such markings: KG27`s book by Walter Waiss, LG1`s history by Peter Taghon. You should also do not forget about ebay.de - where you can find many interesting auction photos.

Regards

Robert

Re: He-111 Poland Campaign 1939
 

Thanks Robert. I appreciate your help.

aeroeng

Re: He-111 Poland Campaign 1939
 

Aeroeng...

A photo you might find interesting... Heinkel He111H-1, coded 1H+JA, of Stabskette/KG26, downed on Saturday 28 October, 1939, crash-landing at Humbie near Edinburgh, while undertaking a solo armed reconnaissance over the east coast of Scotland. Nos 602 (City of Glasgow) and 603 (City of Edinburgh) Squadrons intercepted it.

Kind regards...

Paul

Re: He-111 Poland Campaign 1939
 

Hello

Seeing the pic I found an rare detail. The plane has 2 crosses in each wing (a big cross in the center and a small near the wingtip).

Any explanation?

Martin

Re: He-111 Poland Campaign 1939
 

Hi, Martin...

The reason was because the usual style of cross at the beginning of the war was the small type, as seen in the picture out near the wingtip, but after the combat experience of the Polish campaign, it was found to be a little too small to be easily recognised against the dark green colour scheme, hence the larger ones were introduced in the middle of the wing.

There are several instances of these markings, often on Heinkel 111s, but also observed in varying dimension and upper wing location on Dornier Do17Zs. Chris Goss's excellent publication Dornier 17 in Focus (Red Kite) shows, on page 51, two photos of Do17Zs. In the first, large oversized mid-wing crosses are evident, and in the other, they have been overpainted and replaced, in the same location, with extremely small crosses. These machines operated with KG2.

Additionally, both Ju87s and at least one Do18 flying boat are known to have carried over-sized markings on the wing upper surfaces, also located mid-wing.

Regards...

Paul

Re: He-111 Poland Campaign 1939
 

Thank you Paul. That's a great photo and the type I've been looking for.

aeroeng

Re: He-111 Poland Campaign 1939
 

Hi Paul

I knew small planes like Ju-87 and He-126 had this problem in the Poland campaign, but is new for me it happended in bigger planes like He-111 and Do-17Z.

Thank you for your explanation.

Martin

Re: He-111 Poland Campaign 1939
 

Ju 88 A-1´s also had oversize wing crosses, at least under wings on W.Nr. 0082 of KG 30, as evident by picture in book by Ron Mackay ´Junkers Ju 88´ p.34 (Crowood). I am curious if someone has seen them on upper sides too.

Re: He-111 Poland Campaign 1939
 

I have also seen a picture of a 6/JG 53 E-1, post Polish campaign, with oversized Balkankreuze. See Bf 109, Part I by Lynn Ritger, page36.

Re: He-111 Poland Campaign 1939
 

On page 34 of Werner Held's "The Day Fighters" is a photo of Lent's crash-landed Bf110 at Oslo-Fornebu showing oversized upper-wing crosses.

Don

Re: He-111 Poland Campaign 1939
 

Hi

John Weal, in the page 11 of his book "Messerschmitt Bf 110 Zerstorer Aces of World War 2", relate a incident when Oberleutnant Wolfgang Falk, Sttaffenkapitan of 2./ZG 76, attacked a Ju-87 in his believed it was a polish PZL P.23 Karas.

"Many others pilots made this mistake in the first days, and before long oversized crosses - often a full cord width - began to adorn the wings of Luftwaffe machines engaged in the air war over Poland."

Martin

Re: He-111 Poland Campaign 1939
 

Hello,

My understanding is that the enlarged crosses were not introduced until after 15.10.39 when, I believe, the orders were given to do so. I've seen many, many photos of Luftwaffe a/c during the Polish Campaign (we are researching a major book in the EOE series on this subject) and I don't recall any with oversized crosses that can be reliably dated to the PC itself. This includes quite a number of crashed or force-landed aircraft which are known to date to the PC.

Regards,

Re: He-111 Poland Campaign 1939
 

Hello Everyone,
I was hoping someone would recognize these photos. I'm trying to find the correct source of them and have had no luck.

Thank You,
aeroeng

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k4...gecrossesX.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k4...ecrosses2X.jpg

Re: He-111 Poland Campaign 1939
 

Hi everyone,
I still haven't found the source for these two photos and I hope I'm not breaking any rules by having them posted here. I'd really like to find out where they're from. None of the die-cast forums I'm on can figure it out either. I went through every related book at my local libraries and can't find them. My guess is that they're from someones private collection. If anyone has any clues, let me know.

Thank You,
aeroeng