Piper Cub L-4 unit designation
 

Dear all,

could you please let me know whether there is any unit designation system (digitdigit-letter) of Piper Cub L-4s in U.S. Army made available? I am particularly interested in a ship coded "21-A" belonging probably to 90th or 2nd U.S. Infantry Division in May 1945. A picture of it can be seen at http://hloubkari.cz/forum/index.php?topic=685.0

Thank you. Regards, Filip Vojtasek

Re: Piper Cub L-4 unit designation
 

Hi Filip,

My friend Ken Wakefield asked me to pass this on to you:

With regard to the L-4 mentioned on the 12oclockhigh.net website, 21 was the unit code of the 8th Armored Division, which in May 1945 was in the Harz mountains area of Germany (incidentally, for some reason I was unable to open and view this photo). In a little more detail, the code 21-A indicates that the aircraft belonged to the Air Section of the Division's Headquarters. With regard to the 2nd and 90th Infantry Divisions, mentioned by Filip Vojtasek, the codes of these Divisions were 95 and 48 respectively. '

Re: Piper Cub L-4 unit designation
 

Many thanks, Paul! Oops - the correct code is "21-B"! Could you please ask Ken again to what unit this particular ship was attached to? Unfortunately, only registered users can browse photos at this board...
Regards, Filip

Re: Piper Cub L-4 unit designation
 

Filip,

Ken had some time to check things:

Both 21-A and 21-B were allocated to the Artillery HQ Air Section of the 8th Armored Division. The three Armored Field Artillery Battalions of the 8th Armd Div received 'squadron code markings' as follows: 21-C and -D went to the 398th Armd FA Bn; 21-E and -F to the 399th Armd FA Bn; and -G and -H to the 405th Armd FA Bn. Unlike Armored Divisions, which had eight aircraft shared between three Armd FA Bns and a Div Arty HQ, Infantry and Airborne Divs had four Battalions and therefore received ten aircraft, lettered A to K ('I' was not used to avoid possible confusion with the number '1'). This number/letter unit code system was used by the Armies of 12th Army Group (First, Third, Ninth and Fifteenth US Armies). A different system, employing two letters only, was used for unit identification in Italy and elsewhere in Southern and Central Europe by the Fifth and Seventh US Armies. This system did not provide for individual aircraft identification, the two or more aircraft of a battalion or other unit carrying the same two-letter code.

Filip, if you have more questions please ask.

Re: Piper Cub L-4 unit designation
 

Dear Paul, many thanks for your assistance! F.

Re: Piper Cub L-4 unit designation
 

Hello,
This is a very interesting thread and I would like to ask Paul if he can give me some information about the next code of Piper Cup: 49-F or F-49
This one made an emergency landing because of low fuel in a field near the village of Racour (Belgium) on the 08 or 09 september 1944. I've seen a picture of this one and I could clearly read F*49 on the fuselage.
Thanks
Alexander

Re: Piper Cub L-4 unit designation
 

Alexander,

With help from Ken's great books 'The Fighting Grasshoppers' & 'Lightplanes at War' the designation 49 indicates the 2nd Armored Division.

Regards,

Paul

Re: Piper Cub L-4 unit designation
 

Just received this from Ken:


Further to the query on the unit code markings 44 and the photos of an L-4 at Fouron le Comte, I've now had a look at those photos and see that they really depict two different aircraft. One of them is certainly an L-4, but the other is a Stinson L-5 Sentinel, 44-J with the serial number 42-98522 (see attached copies of both photos). The question is, which of these aircraft landed at Fouron le Comte short of fuel? Or, as seems more likely, were they both temporarily operating from that strip?

Piper Cub L-4 unit designation
 

Hello Paul,

Thanks for the information about the code F*49. Is there a way to find out about the serialnr of that aircraft?

Concerning unit code markings 44/Fouron le comte: do you have the date or period when the pictures were taken?

Regards,

Alexander

Re: Piper Cub L-4 unit designation
 

Alexander,

For Fouron le Comte the text with the picture tells:

Grasshopper Piper Cub type L4 of the 30th Division in a field near the village of Fouron le Comte, Belgium, September 12th, 1944. Serial Number 298522. This is the last village before the Dutch border. Fouron le Comte was liberated by the 119th. These photos were provided by Vincent Heggen of Fouron le Comte.



Regards,

Paul

Re: Piper Cub L-4 unit designation
 

298522 is the serial # for the L-5...

Re: Piper Cub L-4 unit designation
 

Paul,
I'm a newbie to this site, and I notice you seem to have a way to dig up info on L-4 Cubs. I have The Fighting Grasshoppers book by Ken Wakefield, and in it (p.36) he states "...ten (L-4s) were subsequently transferred to the British..." My question: Is there a place where I might find info and/or photos of any of these. I am particularly interested in the paint color schemes they might have had, or the color schemes of any Cubs that were in British Commonwealth service

Thanks in advance for any assistance.

Cheers
Kerry

Re: Piper Cub L-4 unit designation
 

Kerry,

There's a picture of a RAF Grasshopper here: http://www.century-of-flight.net/Avi...rasshopper.htm

Regards,

Leendert

Re: Piper Cub L-4 unit designation
 

There's another one here, but also see remark:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/R.A.F...Cub/1278276/M/

Regards,

Leendert

Re: Piper Cub L-4 unit designation
 

Leendert,
Thanks for the reply.

I've seen the picture of the 'Flitfire' original, and have seen the other with the 'Flitfire' paint scheme in person. What I am looking for is something about actual, in-service use of the Cub by the Brits, and all I have to go on is that one statement (see my orig post) from The Fighting Grasshoppers that some were given to the British.

My guess (and it is only a guess) is that they would have painted them like they did their Austers:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Taylo...ter/1615551/M/
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Taylo...ter/1608463/M/

This is just one of those things that happen from time to time, a tidbit of information, or an idea, that carried to an extreme can lead to an obsession - and I think I'm close to becoming obsessed to find out about those British Cubs! :D

Cheers
Kerry

Re: Piper Cub L-4 unit designation
 

Something in the color like this? See: http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1096734/

Don't know if this one is still original, but FR886 was one of a few delivered to the RAF for evaluation as Piper Cub Mk. 1.

Regads,

Leendert

Re: Piper Cub L-4 unit designation
 

Leendert,
Yes, like that. I have seen this picture before but never had information that it was original. And your statement that FR886 was one of the ones delivered to the RAF as Piper Cub Mk 1 is the first indication of British Cubs I have read other than Ken Wakefield's statement that 10 L-4s were delivered to the British. Do you have any other info on what happened to the Mk1 Cubs?

In fact I had a Piper Cub in the 1970s that I painted in British markings without doing any detailed research. I did it because I wanted a Cub that wasn't yellow, and as a kid, I had been interested in the RAF and RCAF, and my flying instructors in the 1960s had been RAF/RCAF WWII veterans.

I figured if I painted my Cub in those colors I could pretend it was a Spitfire. ;)

Cheers
Kerry

Re: Piper Cub L-4 unit designation
 

Kerry,

According to Ken the silver 'L-4s' seen in RAF markings were actually fund raising "Flitfire" J3 Cubs, civilian aircraft based in the USA. Ken was unable to find evidence in official records that any served with the RAF. If they were actually delivered he suspects they were held in storage at a Maintenance Unit until scrapped or otherwise disposed of, but he has no evidence to support this.

Take care,

Paul

Re: Piper Cub L-4 unit designation
 

We operate a replica "Flitfire" at Cannon Field in San Antonio, TX. Here's a link from the Alamo Liaison Squadron's website: http://www.als-cannonfield.com/Flitfire.htm. As far as I know, ALL of the "Flitfires" were civilian.

Ryan

Re: Piper Cub L-4 unit designation
 

Paul,
Thanks for that info on the history of the Flitfires, and the replica flown by the ALS.

I have been fortunate enough to get some time in a Cuby L-4 (it is sort of a Flitfire replica) owned by the Skagit Aero Education Musuem in Concrete WA. Though it is not quite accurate as either a Flitfire or an L-4 it is just as much fun to fly.

It was built in Canada and you will note the Canadian registration in the pic. It is now US registered as N1775.


Cheers
Kerry

Re: Piper Cub L-4 unit designation
 

Here's a shot of the J-3 "Flitfire" replica we fly. It's in need of some touch-up paint, but a nice flyer.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_VfWYKuy7i0k/Sf...IMG_9945-1.JPG

Flew it a bit cross-country a few weeks ago.

Ryan