ZG26 24.APRIL 44
 

The III.Group that day was surprised by a dozen of Mustangs, they flew "Abwehrkreis" , nd pretty perfectly because they started training 4 years before, nd suffer rather hard punishment but claimed none less than 6 P51 shot-down, are these losses documented in the allied side ??

Remi

Re: ZG26 24.APRIL 44
 

Sorry they claimed 7 P51

Remi

Re: ZG26 24.APRIL 44
 

This combat was with the 357th FG. Its 362nd FS claimed 7-1-5 Bf 110s. According to my MACR summary, the group lost 4 P-51s on the mission: one to Flak, 1 s/d by a Bf 109, 1 s/d by a Bf 110, and one by collision with a Bf 110. I'm sure that Merle Olmsted's big 357th FG book (which I've really got to get) has full mission details. BTW, according to my records, one of the III./ZG 26 claims was confirmed.

Hope this helps.

Don

Re: ZG26 24.APRIL 44
 

According to the MACR witness statements both Connaghan and Donnell were lost due to mid air collisions with the Me 110's they shot down.

Here is my list of ZG26 losses which closely match the 9 awards of Me 110's claimed (and awarded destroyed plus 5 damaged) by the 362FS:


Nagel, Georg Lt III./ZG 26, 7.Stff, Königsberg/Devau near Erding, Crashed, P-51, Bf 110G, 6130 013....
Klaus- Gottfried, Herrmann Uffz III./ZG 26, 7. Stff, Königsberg/DevauPoing, Crashed, P-51, Bf 110G, 2130 037.....
Gaudes Gerhard, Johannes Uffz, III./ZG 26, 8. Stff, Königsberg/DevauAngelbrechting near Neufahrn, Crashed, P-51, Bf 110 G, 2130 091......
Grachornigg OLt III./ZG 26, 8. Stff, Königsberg/DevauKronacker near Hohenlinden, Crashed, P-51, Bf 110G, 2420 034......
Lachinger Uffz III./ZG 26, Königsberg/DevauNear Munchen, Crashed, P-51, Bf 110G-2, wrkno unk....Unk
Kuser Uffz III./ZG 26, Königsberg/DevauNear Munchen, Crashed, P-51, Bf 110G-2, wrkno Unk....
Weber LtIII./ZG 26, Königsberg/DevauNear Munchen, Crashed, P-51, Bf 110G-2, wrkno Unk....
RiskeUffz III./ZG 26, Königsberg/DevauNear Munchen, Crashed, P-51, Bf 110G-2, wrkno Unk...
Müller OLt III./ZG 26 Königsberg/DevauErding, Crashed, P-51, Bf 110G-2, wrkno Unk

Donnell went down ~ 11mi east of Munich, Connaghan down south of Erding.. both in the 1400-1410 timeframe.

As Don mentioned the 110 engagement was all 362FS/357FG ranging from just south of Erding to an area to the southeast of Munich from 1400-1410.

For a 100+ mi radius around Munich:

A total of four Mustangs were actually confirmed (by MACR) shot down in air combat - (3 -355FG, 1-357FG), these four were by Me 109s. A Me 110 award for Donnell might be possible according to Tony Woods list. There are about 8 Mustangs (one to 7./ZG26) plus a P-47 (no Jugs travelled east of Stuttgart) awarded as destroyed in air combat in the Munich area (Woods) so it is difficult to match the LW pilots that should actually receive the awards.

Two Mustangs (357FG) were lost to mac w/110's of III./ZG26 according to witness statements but Donnell was not credited for a Me 110 - so ? It is possible that the Me 110 he collided with made it back to base... and made a legitimate claim of a Mustang 'destroyed'

Three Mustangs were lost strafing at Lenting (352FG), Speyer (357FG) and Bingen (355FG) - to AA fire.

Re: ZG26 24.APRIL 44
 

I just re-read J-935, attached to Donnell's MACR 4329. The J report states unequivocally that the Mustang collided with the Bf110 and both crashed.

Apparently the 110 crew claimed Donnell's Mustang shot down.

Browning was the witness, Donnell was Bud Anderson's wing, got separated near Augsburg at 1345 and later engaged the Me 110 near Erding where the mac occurred 1400-1410.

Donnell was observed to bail out and was captured but no mention of survivors in the Me 110..

Re: ZG26 24.APRIL 44
 

Hello Dragondog --

Do you happen to have a casualty list for the III./ZG 26 Bf 110s downed this date?

Don

Re: ZG26 24.APRIL 44
 

Nagel georg ltn f t
Zenz josef uffz bf t
Rischke rolf uffz f t
Klaus gottfried uffz bf t
Gaudes johann uffz f/bf t
Plötner olaf fj-uffz bf/f t
Grachornigg konrad oblt f t
Schafforz anton fw bf t

+ ZG1 That day but non-ennemy flight
Diebel gerhard ltn f t
Stille herbert uffz bf t
Voigt fritz oge 2,wart t

+ The ones who belly-landed their plane without injuries

Müller oblt f
Weber ltn f
Riske uffz f
Kaiser/kaser uffz f
Lackinger uf f

Re: ZG26 24.APRIL 44
 

Many thanks -- "t" = tot = killed, I assume?

Don

Re: ZG26 24.APRIL 44
 

You assumed good

Remi

Re: ZG26 24.APRIL 44
 

Don - I sent it along with 8th BC/FC losses and awards about two months ago. Look for it today. It is the April 24 Mission for my new book.

Regards,

Bill

Re: ZG26 24.APRIL 44
 

Remi- do you have a damage % for the belly landed 110's?

Also, do you have a record of a Ju 88 or Me 410 dwon west of Munich ~ 1420.

Thanks,

Bill

Re: ZG26 24.APRIL 44
 

No percentage of loss for the belly-landed planes, nd , for the moment no Ju88 near Munich lost that day.

Sorry

Remi

Re: ZG26 24.APRIL 44
 

I found one that belly landed on Lechfeld after damages causes by air-fight Ju88 3369 of the E.Kdo 262, that day many Air-places were fighted
Crailsheim, Leipheim, Ingolstadt, Eutingen..

Remi

Re: ZG26 24.APRIL 44
 

Remi - Thank you. that sounds like a match of Pierce's claim (363FS/357FG) of a Ju 88.

Only two fighter Groups were really engaged (combined - 88 Mustangs) the big battle around Munich in which the 1st TF/1st BD was engaged. The 355th and the 357th.

However the 2nd BD B-24s were attacking Leipheim area airfields in trail behind the 1st TF. The 352nd FG had one award of a Ju 52 at Neuburg and the 354th FG also excorting the B-24s got a couple of 109s sw of Ingolstadt.. this was a sideshow to the Augsburg/Erding/Munich/Landsberg and Oberpfaffenhofen batles.


After the 2BD bombed Leipheim, the B-24s turned ne toward Ingolstadt turned to the north then back to the west and were long out of the area as the 1st TF continued east bound. The 1TF flew west near Augsburg Augsburg, then SSE to bomb Erding, then due south to the IP SE of Munich then westbound below Munich to the IP and WNW to bomb Landsberg and Oberphaffenhofen.

I suspect the Ju 88 encounter followed as the 1st TF headed N toward Gablingen before turning WNW for home. The Me 110s engaged when the main body of the 41-A and 41-B Bomb wings were heading for their Landsberg/Oberphaffenhofen targets. They were coming in to attack from the NE and the 362FS/357th intercepted them crossing Munich to the SW.

The LW losses that day were isolated around Wurms (4th FG) initially around 1245, then the majority were all around Munich (355/357FG) from 1320 - 1430.

Thanks again Remi