USAAF aircraft 19-8-1942 (Sudan)
 

P/O (Pilot) Elroy F. BENT - RCAF J/9264 and P/O (Pilot) Peter H. WYMAN - RCAF J/8642, both buried Khartoum, Sudan, were killed 19-8-1942 on board of a USAAF aircraft crashing at Wadi Seidna.
Looking for aircraft type and serial and - if possible - more on accident and crew.
Regards and thanks,
Henk.

Re: USAAF aircraft 19-8-1942 (Sudan)
 

Henk,

I expect you have already checked the AAIR website for this loss, but in case you have not there is no USAAF accident listed in the Sudan or nearby for any date in August 1942. Of course not all USAAF accidents had a report made out and probably some that did have not survived.

Regards,

Martin Gleeson.

Re: USAAF aircraft 19-8-1942 (Sudan)
 

Thanks Martin. TOCH was my last hope. No trace in Ferry Command either. Both Canadians are the only casualties for this date at the Khartoum WC (or Americans involved may have been repatriated). For the time being their names will be left on my long list of airmen sofar unaccounted for.
Regards,
Henk.

Re: USAAF aircraft 19-8-1942 (Sudan)
 

Henk,

Thru airforcehistoryindex.org surprisingly a lot can be found when looking for full crew names of USAAF a/c that had accidents.
It so seems however that for the 19 Aug 1942 records (be careful: presented as 43-8-19) there are several that have no names provided.
It makes we wonder if the one with Bent and Wyman is one of them...

I gathered that the USAAF was ferrying a/c into Sudan at that time from Port Sudan and also that the RAF was receiving Marauders in that area in August 1942.

Groet,

Leendert

Re: USAAF aircraft 19-8-1942 (Sudan)
 

Thanks Leendert, another direction to continue the search.
Dank en gegroet,
Henk.

Re: USAAF aircraft 19-8-1942 (Sudan)
 

Leendert,
A commercial website apprears when I go for the recommended website Airforcehistory.org
Please advise.
Regards,
Henk.

Re: USAAF aircraft 19-8-1942 (Sudan)
 

Henk,

Try this one: http://airforcehistoryindex.org/

Groet,

Leendert

Re: USAAF aircraft 19-8-1942 (Sudan)
 

Hello,
With reference to post 4 above .
The following may well be worth looking up.
The RAF/RCAF etc etc may not have been added to the list and it could perhaps be of help if the names here can be matched to aircraft or aircraft type ?
I have highlighted four sections that might be of interest .

LANGAN, JOHN P. (43-8-19-1)
*TRACY, JOSEPH P. (43-8-19-2)
*CONNER, WILLIAM W. (43-8-19- 3)
*LANFIER, LEON; KING, CHARLES P. (43-8-19-4)
*JUDGE, MAURICE L.; HILEY, J. H. (43-8-19- 5)
*CRISMAN, L. R. (43-8-19-6)
*BERGER, GEORGE; TONG, BYRON C. (43-8-19-7)
*CLUGSTON, HARRY V. (CIVILIAN); BURRIS, LLOYD K. (43-8-19-8)
*SEEBERG, G. A.; ZAVACKI, S.; FRAYLING, S. (43-8-19-9)
*HENDRICKSON, LAWRENCE; HARDY, KENNETH A. (43-8-19- 10)
*GOLDBERG, J. M. (CIVILIAN) (43-8-19-11)
*EIDEN, ORVILLE; CHISHOLM, DONALD W. (CIVILIAN) (43-8-19-12)
*NO NAMES ON 43-8-19-13
*QUIESENBERRY, BILLIE E. (43-8-19- 14)
*BIRON, RICHARD M. (43-8-19-15)
*BEDIENT, HAROLD A.; BIRD, W. A. (43-8-19- 16)
*HAVENS, R. R. (43-8-19-17)
*ELLIOTT, C. H.; MAHLER (43-8-19-18)
*WATKINS, JAMES C.; WHITE, HARRY R.; JARES, B. V.; HALE, W. D.; BROWN, E. L.; CORRIGAN, C. H. (43-8-19- 19)
*GROSSMAN, JOHN F. (43-8-19-20)
*MILLER, JOHN R. JR; MCALMON, P. W. (CIVILIAN) (43- 8-19-21)
*VIVIER, NORMAN C. JR (43-8-19-22)
*CHAMPION, G. B.; HARRIS, R. A.; HORNE, J. E.; HEINRICH, L. A.; GORGY, J. F.; SMITH, P.C.; GIBSON, B. (43-8-19-23)
*CHECK, JOSEPH P. JR (43- 8-19-24)
*HAGAN, CLARENCE (43-8-19-25)
*BLAIS, JULIEN J. (43-8-19-26)
*WOOD, P. S. (43-8-19- 27)
*VIECELI, ANGELO (43-8-19-28)
*WILKINSON, W. (UNITED KINGDOM); BIBBY, E. (UNITED KINGDOM) (43-8-19-29)
*REISS, F. H.; DINSMORE, M. E. (43-8-19-30)
*O’CONNOR, FRANCIS; NORTON, JAMES (43-8-19-31)
*WHITEHEAD, R. S. (43-8-19-32)
*CAHALL, WILLIAM (43-8-19- 33)
*BAKER, HENRY M.; BARADIS, VINCENT A.; CAMPBELL, KELLY; SKAGGS, JESSE S. JR (43- 8-19-34)*METZGER, WARREN C. (43-8-19-35)
*MCCARTHY, E. R. (43-8-19-36)
*DISARRO, RALPH A.; MILLER, WILLIAM L.; MORGAN, J.J. (43-8-19-37)
*CHITTY, CHARLES D. JR; LAFRAMBOISE, LEO F. (43-8-19-38)
*RAPIN, LOUIS E. (43-8-19-39)
*PETERS, VINCENT L.; PERRIER, PETER W. (43-8-19-40)
*TYSON, JOHN . (43-8-19-41)
*43-8-19-42 THROUGH 43-8-19-499 MISSING
*LEWIS, JACKSON B. (43-8-19-500)
*NO NAMES ON 43-8-19-501
*OAKLEY, CHARLES W. (43-8-19- 502)
*NO NAMES ON 43-8-19-503
*GIBBON, ELWIN HERBERT (43-8-19-504)
*JENKINS, ELBERT C.; MCCUNE, MILO, STRAUSS, H. A.; UNDERWOOD, L. R.; GRIFFIN, M. T.; KLUIBER, R. C.; BIGELOW, A. A. (NAVY); PECK, L.; SOWASH, C. R.; BROWN, J. H.; HOLDEN, H. T.; KOCK, N. E.; THORTON, C. R. (NURSE CORPS); MILLER, M. M. (NURSE CORPS); LATHON, P. B. (43-8-19- 505)*MCCORD, ROBERT R. (43-8-19- 506.

All the very best
Alex

Re: USAAF aircraft 19-8-1942 (Sudan)
 

Alex,

A lot of these names can be found back on website aviationarchaeology.com, but then of course under 19 August 1942.

As you may have read, the history index gives 43, indicating the fiscal year.

Regards,

Leendert

Re: USAAF aircraft 19-8-1942 (Sudan)
 

Dear friends,
Whatever I did, no luck finding any link to an a/c accident 19-8-1942 at Wadi Seidna, Sudan. Thanks for your support.
Best regards,
Henk.

Re: USAAF aircraft 19-8-1942 (Sudan)
 

Hello Henk,

Forwhat its worth , these airmen's details have been requested before maybe even on this site, as I have the followingon a peice of paper - details from the CWGC or Canadian Virtual War Memorial site.
P/O. Elroy Fenwick Bent age 19, son of Ernest Elroy and Lorna Henrietta. Husband of Frances Evelyn of Upper Granville, Annapolis Co, NS.
P/O. Peter Hersey Wyman, son of John Kirby and Jessie Maud of Montreal Province of Quebec. BA McGill University.
So some trace may be found on the web ?

The only USAAF a/c losses were B17's, B24's, B25's and P40's in August 42. I was wondering if there were any US Spitfires on hand or in the process of being delivered as I have on the same peice of papoer a ref - Beautiful, three Spits - and "They Shall Grow Not Old" Les Allison. Connection may be nil .
There were also several aircraft lost en route from the US to the MTO.
Then also there were I think some that were on delivery to India and even the USSR via Iran. Little is reported about these aircraft or their crews.

Good Hunting
Alex

Re: USAAF aircraft 19-8-1942 (Sudan)
 

Thanks Alex for your support. Again spent hours without any result. Put their names on hold for later.
Regards,
Henk.

Re: USAAF aircraft 19-8-1942 (Sudan)
 

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=r...0Wyman&f=false

Says Bent died 19th and Wyman 20th -could not the aircraft have crashed earlier and they died of injuries?

Re: USAAF aircraft 19-8-1942 (Sudan)
 

Could be, although CWGC also has BENT on the 19th August.

Henk.

Re: USAAF aircraft 19-8-1942 (Sudan)
 

......correction:
intend to say CWGC has BOTH on the 19th August.

Re: USAAF aircraft 19-8-1942 (Sudan)
 

Hello,

Have trawled the AB RAFserial number books and could only come up with the following

Blenheim L8510 70 OTU - Nakuro, (?) collision with V6327-19-8-42 .
Beaufighter X7677 - 272 - MIA Mediterranean - 20-8-42.
Beaufighter X8034 - 227 Ditched 5m S of Kalafrana - 20-8-42.
Wellington X9684 - 148 - Ground fire Kabrit - 18-8-42.
Boston Z2294 - 24 SAAF c/l Mersa Matruh - 17-8-42.
Blenheim Z7594 - CF Kartoum - F/Ld 19m W of Seatur, Sudan 2-8-42.
Blenheim Z9724 - 244 - C/l Sharjah Creek - 19-8-42.
Beaufighter T4840 - 252 - 19-8-42.
Beaufighter T4934 - 227 - 20-8-42.
Beaufighter T5251 - 236 - MIA - 19-8-42.
Blenheim V6327 - 70 OTU - Collision with L8510 - Nakuro, (?) 19-8-42.
Hudson V9172 - 459 - Lost on ops 16-8-42.
Kittyhawk ET840 - 3RAAF - C/l desert 19-8-42.
Kittyhawk ET871 - 3RAAF - Amriya - 18-8-42.
Mosquito DD983 - 217 - Takali - 19-8-42.
9 Mustangs on the 19-8-42 but Dieppe/Fecamp.
6 Bostons on the 19th also Dieppe area.
Baltimore AG790 -55 - LG55 - 17-8-42.
Tomahawk AK350 - 208 - Western Desert 17-8-42.
Beaufort AW295 - 86 - Punta Stilo(?) - 20-8-42.
Beaufort AW341 - 86 - Punta Stilo(?) - 20-8-42.
Blenheim BA597 - ADU - Ogbomosho, Nigeria - 19-8-42.
There must be many others lost around this date and then there are all the US aircraft, we do not even know if the two airmen were in the same aircraft. As has been said they may well have been injured and died at a later date.
The only other thing would be that they were involved in transporting aircraft accross the African Continent, perhaps searching out US Aircraft lost in the area while in transit would be the best bet.

All the best
Alex

Re: USAAF aircraft 19-8-1942 (Sudan)
 

BLENHEIM IV Z7594 Info


http://www.trademe.co.nz/Antiques-co...-178178685.htm

Is the rest of the crew mentioned in FYT by Errol Martyn

Re: USAAF aircraft 19-8-1942 (Sudan)
 

Paul,
Errol has Sgt (Pilot) W.S. BURNS - NZ411856.
Allison (TSGNO) has F/Sgt (Obs) J.P. SPEAKMAN - R/64476 (although no a/c serial listed).
Third casualty may have been Sgt (WOp/Ag) R.E. SIMKIN - 1287635.
Fieldgrave lost and all commemorated on the Alamein Memorial.
Regards,
Henk.

Re: USAAF aircraft 19-8-1942 (Sudan)
 

Hello,

Not a US loss but an RAF loss was an American Bomber on the 17th August 1942.
Marauder I serial FK119 (41-7389) MIA 17-8-42.
Crews names and fate now found, it was on a ferry flight, one of 8 that crashed after export to the MAAF from this particular batch.[ ref AB's "The BAC and Lend-Lease"].

All for now
Alex

Re: USAAF aircraft 19-8-1942 (Sudan)
 

Hello Alex,
Unfortunately no match for BENT and WYMAN. FK119 of 45 Group took off Natal, Brazil for a ferry flight and missing over the Ocean. Crew - all missing:
S/Ldr G. ROBINSON - 40020;
Sgt G.F. LYMAN-DIXON - 1227812;
Radio Offr Mr. G.H. RANDLE (from Canada) - not listed CWGC, and
P/O J.J.P.H. DORAN - RCAF J/11496.
Regards,
Henk.

Re: USAAF aircraft 19-8-1942 (Sudan)
 

"Between June and the end of the year, 398 Lockheed and Martin medium bombers--including 120 B-34's, 153 A-28's, 45 B-26's, and 80 A-30's--
were ferried to British forces in Africa by crews of Pan American Air Ferries or by American and British military crews."


http://ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/I/AAF-I-9.html

B-34 = Lockheed Ventura
A-28 = Lockheed Hudson
B-26 = Martin Marauder
A-30 = Martin Baltimore

Methinks it might be a Ferrying accident to one of these...

Re: USAAF aircraft 19-8-1942 (Sudan)
 

Not in my files of mentioned a/c types, or the ferried a/c were still under USAAF serials.
Regards,
Henk.

Re: USAAF aircraft 19-8-1942 (Sudan)
 

Hello Henk & Paul,

From the AB book "The BAC & Lend-Lease".

There seem to have been No B17's.

B24 losses destined for the RAF AL596(Date?),41-1128 (Date ?), FL957(1943), BZ964(Date ?), EW213 and BZ936 which crashed in the USA as 42-64013 and AL569 which crashed at El Obeid on 25th November 41. While 41-1119, FK216(28-5-42) EV980(1944), EW148 (1944), EV894(1945), EV936(1944) and BZ935(1944) crashed after export.

Marauder Mk.I , 8 crashed after export, they were FK113(Date ?), FK119( MIA 17-8-42 [delt with]), FK125(Date ?), FK129(1943), FK140(Date ?), FK148(Date ?), FK368 (Date ?)and FK369 (Date ?).
Marauder Mk. II, three were lost after export, FB454(1943), FB455(1943), FB457(1943).
Also lost after export were MArauder Mk.III's HD419, HD605 and HD664 all lost in 1944.

Nothing said on Marylands.

Kittyhawk ET583 retained after damage loading in USA, became CL-26 November 42.

Hudson's three crashed after export, EW880 (October 42), EW938 (Date ?) and FK499 ( in sea October 42).
Ventura's five were lost after export, FP590,JS900,JS955,JS971 and JS801, all lost in 1944 but FP590 said to have gone to SAAF, Not in "85 years of SAAF" lists.

Martin Baltimore's again there were several marks so for ease I will just list the serials and date where known.
FA111 (Date ?),117(Date ?),121(1943),124(1943),125(1943),137(1943),140(Dat e ?),156(Date ?),168(Date ?),177(1943),182(1943),214(Date ?),218(Date ?),227(1943),314(1943),330(1943),334(Date ?),340(1943),354(1943),363(Date ?),392(1943),427(1943),448(1943),487(1943),520(194 3),524(Date ?).
FW323(1943),377(1943),395(1943),409(Date ?),472(1943),511(1943),533(1943),560(1943),640(194 4),680(1944),693(1944),733(Date ?),828(1944).

Boston's lost were
Mk.IIA's - BZ200(Ireland),209(October 1942),215(Greenland),222(UK),238(Brazil),245(1943),247 (December 1942),272(1943),277(November 1942),287(Iceland),294(Newfoundland),295(Date ?),300(1943),306(1943),385(1943),396(1943).
Mk.IV's - BZ404(1944),549(1944).
Mk. V - BZ593(1944).

All this seems to again point to a US aircraft or perhaps an aircraft on a Ferry flight to Egypt for MAAF or Persia for India or Russia.

Alex

Re: USAAF aircraft 19-8-1942 (Sudan)
 

Hello Alex & Paul,

Have sent a written request to the DHH (Directorate of History and Heritage) of the NDHQ (National Defence Headquarters) at Ottawa. Will keep you informed upon any result.
Regards,
Henk.

Re: USAAF aircraft 19-8-1942 (Sudan)
 

Hello Henk,
A/c was a Hudson IIIA.
Problem still though.
serial number is given to me as 41-23592.
This a/c would have been , under the BAC lend-Lease BW730.
Details in AB BA100-BZ999 2nd edition has BW729-775 as To China.
AB's "The BAC & Lend-Lease" has on page 99, has-
"209 Aircraft
198 arrived at destinationsby air or sea: 2 crashed after export;BW636 638.
8 crashed in US: BW435,440,455,459,637,714,773,774: 1 on special duty: BW456 for tests at Ottawa: 1 Balance of a/c exported by air.
130 to 8OTU Debert, Canada: BW381-384;399-408;410,412,423,430-434,436-439,441-444,447-454,457,458,460,614,616-635,639-660,682-682,685-698,700-713,715-720,722-724,768,770-772,775-777.
7 to 45 Group RAFTC BW409,445,684,699,769,411,616 crashed.
49 to Australia and China: BW413-419,421,661-681,736-755.
12 to New Zealand:BW756-767 (NZ2037-2048)
RAF Serials
BW361-777
AAF Serials
41-23223 - 23639 (417 serials allocated to contract)
Some a/c were taken over by USAAF".
So Do we know how the Hudson's originally meant for the RAF, then held by the USAAF(?) or RCAF(?) were eventually ferried to China ?
Would it have been down to Brazil, across the Atlantic, up through Africa, accross from Egypt/Sudan to India then on to China ??
Seems the long way round.

Alex

Re: USAAF aircraft 19-8-1942 (Sudan)
 

Thanks Alex for this excellent info and also for your PM. Finally can add a bit more to the names of BENT and WYMAN. My letter sent to the Directorate of History and Heritage of the National Defence Headquarters in Ottawa, sent in 2 0 0 9 (!!) still hasn't been answered. The receipt of my letter even never was confirmed. That's how Canadians are interested in the history of their military men who sacrificed their life during WW2 for our freedom.
Best regards,
Henk.

Re: USAAF aircraft 19-8-1942 (Sudan)
 

Alex,

Congrats for solving this almost "cold case"!

It appears that the RAF (also) used Hudsons in the area, including 163 Squadron.

Regards,

Leendert

Re: USAAF aircraft 19-8-1942 (Sudan)
 

Stiwell's Mission to China - Page 158


"the transfer of General Brereton with all of his available aircraft from India to the Middle East and the halting in Africa of a shipment of Lockheed Hudson (A -29) bombers intended for China."

Re: USAAF aircraft 19-8-1942 (Sudan)
 

Hello Paul,
Thank you greatly for the Book attachment.
It may well give the answer.
Operation "Aquilla"- shipment of 33 A-29's to China.
And isn't there always a "But".
But then later in the book it says:
The halting of A-29's in Africa destined for China.
Question Were these the same Aircraft or were they from two different operations ?

As at this time I am having problems accesssing the armyairforce.com website
and so cannot reply to The neice of Elroy F. Bent, to thank her as I did not get an e address.

BW729-775 as To China
US serial numbers were
41-23591 - 41-23637

Can anyone say for sure which A-29's the 33 mentioned were, ie serial numbers ?

Thanks very much
Alex