FW200 F8+OK lost 22 October 1940
 

Hi guys

On 22 October 1940 F8+OK of I/KG40 commanded by Oblt Schuldt FTR from a sortie over the Irish Sea.

On this same date, the Irish steamer Kerry Head was attacked and sunk by a German bomber at about 1400 hours off Castletownbere.

A witness reported seeing the bomber crash into the sea following the attack.

Do two and two make four?

Cheers
Brian

Re: FW200 F8+OK lost 22 October 1940
 

The loss record states it was on a weather recon. Did such missions go "armed" with bombs?

Fw200C-2, 0024, Schuldt, Oblt. Theo, 2./KG 40, schwarze O, F8+OK, 22-Oct-40, MIA with crew while on weather recon. 6 crew missing., Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #2)-Vol.3; BoB, T&N, p.693; Mason, p.455, txt., vor Irland Küste

Re: FW200 F8+OK lost 22 October 1940
 

You may also see the notes here:

http://homepage.eircom.net/~wrgi/tableker.html

Don

Re: FW200 F8+OK lost 22 October 1940
 

Thanks guys

That is interesting and confusing. The Irish website states that the crew was rescued by the Irish Lights vessel Nabro, whereas other records state there were no survivors. At least two were lost, the pilot (Schuldt) and the meteorologist (Sturm), their bodies having been washed ashore a few weeks later. So, were the remaining four crewmembers rescued?

Cheers
Brian

Re: FW200 F8+OK lost 22 October 1940
 

Hi,

I also red that two bodies were later found. I also know that this plane took off in the morning.

Regards

Robert

Re: FW200 F8+OK lost 22 October 1940
 

Ac usually flew bombed up because of targets of opportunity

Re: FW200 F8+OK lost 22 October 1940
 

Brian

This site is also pretty useful
http://www.skynet.ie/~dan/war/crashes.htm

Cheers
Stig

Re: FW200 F8+OK lost 22 October 1940
 

All

Further to my mail this WNr 0024 is a bit of a mystery.

Nowarra in his Fw 200 book states that
0024 F8+DK with III./KG 40 was 55% lost 27.4.1942 at Orleans

Salgado in his recent book states
0024 F8+OK missing Irish Sea 22.10.1940

Question
If Salgado is correct then what was lost at Orleans 27.4.1942? I know that Nowarra is unreliable although he got better and better. His final books are far more reliable than his early ones. So if I presume Nowarra did not just have fantasy what was really lost on 27.4.42?

Cheers
Stig

Re: FW200 F8+OK lost 22 October 1940
 

Hallo all,

Brian.
There is no evidence that I know of to connect both incidents, though it is very possible. What the witness 'saw' and what actually happened can be two different things - as we all know to our cost ! I have yet to view any witness reports to this attack but there are probably some in the relevant coastal look-out post logs which I have not seen.

John.
To judge by the number of attacks made by Condors and other aircraft on Irish and other vessels off the Irish coast in 1940-1941 it appears most unlikely that any of these Luftwaffe aircraft did not carry bombs. An observation from a review of files of reported attacks on shipping in the Irish Military Archives.

Don and Brian.
Basically ignore the incorrect and mixed-up information on that website. Dennis Burke's website (see Stig's post) is much more reliable.

Robert.
You may hold the key here ! Do you know the exact take-off time ?
AFAIK the attacker/unit of the Kerry Head on 22 October 1940 has never been identified.
Two bodies were indeed found (Schuldt and Sturm), the others were never recovered (or perhaps identified). Schuldt was found washed ashore on 12 November 1940 at Aillebrack, near Clifden, County Galway on the west coast of Ireland. Sturm was found washed ashore on the same date at Dynich Island, near Lettermullen, Co. Galway.

Stig.
0024 is correct for 1940, while 0025 was the 1942 loss. This information came from contributions on this very forum in 2002 and 2005 by Jim P., Chris Goss and Peter Cornwell.

Hope this helps,

Martin Gleeson.

Re: FW200 F8+OK lost 22 October 1940
 

Thanks Martin

Good to hear from you again. Trust you are well.

I am now getting a clearer picture of events.

Cheers
Brian

Re: FW200 F8+OK lost 22 October 1940
 

Hi all,
I agree with my good friend and colleague Martin. It would indeed be a help if Robert or somebody could let us have the off time for the Condor from Bordeaux. It would also be of considerable assistance to us if a take off time for a Zenit sortie from Brest was also available....Wekusta 2 or 51.
Brian could tell us the identity of the eyewitness to the demise of the German aircraft mentioned in your initial posting.
regards
Tony K

Re: FW200 F8+OK lost 22 October 1940
 

Hi Tony

The following is an extract from Parliamentary Debates - http://historical-debates.oireachtas

"In October, the Kerry Head was sunk after being attacked by an aircraft off Cape Clear, County Cork. Her destruction, with the loss of 12 crew, was watched by several people on Clear Island although to this day the nationality of the plane that attacked her is unknown. An eyewitness said long after the war that a German plane dropped a stick of bombs on the vessel at around two o'clock in the afternoon, that the Kerry Head exploded in a sheet of flame and that the blast from the explosion brought down the aircraft which crashed in the sea. A trawler was moored off Cape Clear but did not have sufficient fuel to reach the scene of the attack. An Irish launch was only taken from Berehaven at 8 o'clock in the evening because the authorities were not at first convinced that there had been a sinking. Some of those who watched the attack from Clear Island claimed later that they saw survivors clinging to wreckage after the explosion."

Cheers
Brian

Re: FW200 F8+OK lost 22 October 1940
 

Thanks Brian for that.
I think that it is important to note "an eyewitness said long after the war". Martin, I am sure will confirm the number of BUM STEERS we get from stories being told and retold by so many so called witnesses. I have not been able to find an actual witness although I have been to Cape Clear Island many times, but on the other hand I have been told "great stories"
Incidentally there was no debris or wreckage or bodies washed ashore following the sinking and it was not for some days later that it was realised that the Kerry Head was missing.
Best wishes
Tony K

Re: FW200 F8+OK lost 22 October 1940
 

Thanks Tony

So I guess the jury is still out on this one.

Cheers
Brian

Re: FW200 F8+OK lost 22 October 1940
 

Thanks Martin for the update! Appreciated
Cheers
Stig

Re: FW200 F8+OK lost 22 October 1940
 

Hallo to all,

Glad to have been of some assistance, but I am learning from this thread as well ! Keep it up. Regards and thanks.

Martin.

Re: FW200 F8+OK lost 22 October 1940
 

Hi, all

Stig - you must appreciate the fact that a loss record does not necessary mean that an aircraft was lost for eternity. Even 100% losses will not mean that - as for example a bellylanded aircraft in enemy territory is regarded and registered as a 100% loss, the front shift, the aircraft is salvaged - and lost again - and again.

In this particular case - FW 200 WNr 0025, it was damaged 55% at Orleans, due to Rollschaden. Probably crashed into something on the runway or whatever, not unlikely that a photo exist. Was it 'lost for ever'? No - this airframe reappears with a 15% loss noted at Saporoshje in January 1943. What ultimately happened to it? I do not know, probably finally lost sometime during 1944.

Regards,
Andreas B

Re: FW200 F8+OK lost 22 October 1940
 

Thanks Andreas

Yes I am aware of that, and Nowarra's book has that second damage listed as well of 0025. I believe there has been some kind of glitch in the manuscript of his book, and the details for the loss of 0024 is missing and the initial details for 0025 ended up for 0024.

Phoenix rising from the ashes. It is rare but in the case of Luftwaffe at least is a fact....:)

Cheers
Stig