Ju 52 with unusual tail
 

I don't know if these photos have been offered before.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=390105441416

Supposedly made from original negatives.



Usual disclaimer,
Ed

Re: Ju 52 with unusual tail
 

I see nothing unusual in the tail. Are you talking about the markings? Usual for transport groups.

Re: Ju 52 with unusual tail
 

At least for the tail markings they are totaly unusual.

Remi

Re: Ju 52 with unusual tail
 

I have seen other transport group markings. This one is unique in my experience.



Regards,
Ed

Re: Ju 52 with unusual tail
 

I'm with Sergio Luis. That's a theater tactical marking and these are all decoded in:

Kössler, Karl. Transporter – wer kennt sie schon! Die Kennzeichen der Transportfliegerverbände der Luftwaffe von 1937-1945. Düsseldorf: Alba Buchverlag, 1976. ISBN: 3-87094-410-2. Pb (card cover). 89p. Illus. Charts. Tables.

Herr Dipl.Ing. Kössler spent 20 years researching the subject and I think his book is the only one with comprehensive coverage of these special markings that were most common to the Mediterranean theater, but also employed in Russia.

L.

Re: Ju 52 with unusual tail
 

Even if discussion could reveal a bit specious, but first what is the marking
O 3, 6 3, anything other above these 2 figures , or under as usual??? theater Mediterranean one ?
Usually codes used are 1 letter+1figure+1 letter...

Remi

Re: Ju 52 with unusual tail
 

I agree with Remi... the use if two numerals for a rudder tactical code is rare. Most are two letter & one number or Roman numeral, number & letter combinations. On flicking through the Kossler booklet, the only examples of two numbers being used include the following Ju52s coded in this manner:

Ju52 coded Big 5 small 4 of II./KG.z.b.V.1
Ju52 coded Big 8 small 9 of 8 Staffel II./KG.z.b.V.1
Ju52 coded Big 5 small 1 of 5 Staffel KG.z.b.V.1

So perhaps the example being discussed here belonged to 6 Staffel II./KG.z.b.V.1?

Cheers
Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

Re: Ju 52 with unusual tail
 

Hi...

Interesting one, this photo. Personally, I've never seen a two-digit rudder code before, so that's a first for me, but not sure about it being KGzbV1, whose code was '1Z'. To my eye, unit code looks more akin to 'G6', thus opening out the options to the several units known to have used that code.

Regards...

Paul

Re: Ju 52 with unusual tail
 

I may be wrong Paul, but I'm sure there are examples of rudder tactical codes that don't tie up with the Vktz. This is especially the case when the rudder code system was used as the primary identification and control/assignment method for temporary formations until mid-1943. Having said that, although the image of Big 6 small 3 is not the best, and the fuselage corrugation not aiding positive identification, I agree that its looks like G6+?? one minute... and then SG+?? the next!

Cheers
Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

Re: Ju 52 with unusual tail
 

Good points to Peter, SG seems the better contender, didn't found any SG with Ju52 except a SG+BM 5590 nd SG+BL in Sicily
But could be G6 we hv a 7444 with KGr.zbv.Wittstock at trapani in dec. 42, 7644 was lost flying transport to or from Stalingrad, other Wn possible ??

Remi

Re: Ju 52 with unusual tail
 

I don't have the Kossler reference, but Classic's Transporter quotes 9 as the code for KGrzbV 9, and 7 for KGrzbV 700. It quoted 600 for KGrzV 600, but could this be a misprint?

However it doesn't link any of these to a 2-numeral code, so perhaps the above suggestion of 6 Staffel KGrzbV 1 is more consistent with other usage.

Re: Ju 52 with unusual tail
 

Sorry to resurrect this old thread, but as way of an update, I took the plunge and purchased the set of images featuring this Ju52 with the strange rudder code and am able to confirm that the first two letters of the fuselage code were actually GG+??

Cheers
Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

Re: Ju 52 with unusual tail
 

Great Peter

Any chances of stating the WNr?

Cheers
Stig

Re: Ju 52 with unusual tail
 

My pleasure Stig... and it was WNr.7666

Cheers
Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

Re: Ju 52 with unusual tail
 

Thanks again Peter

Ever in Gothenburg, please give me a shout. You certainly deserve a pint for the effort...:)

Cheers
Stig

Re: Ju 52 with unusual tail
 

No probs Stig... as for the beer, I'll hold you to that if I ever make it across :)

Cheers
Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

Re: Ju 52 with unusual tail
 

I can add the following for this aircraft:
Ju 52/3mg8e W.Nr. 7666 GG+FN of Sanitätsflugbereitschaft 7. 100% damaged on 10.07.43 at Catania airfield. Crashed into a trench while taxiing. Later found by RAF who reported the tailmarking as 6 over 3.
Hope this solves the "mystery".

Re: Ju 52 with unusual tail
 

Other than a definitive answer as to the significance of the 6 over 3 rudder markings, you really can't ask for much more than that Mr.Seaplanes! Many thanks indeed for sharing these last pieces of the jigsaw :)

Kind regards
Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

Re: Ju 52 with unusual tail
 

Thanks Seaplanes

Looks like I owe you a pint as well if you ever drops down to Göteborg ;)

Cheers
Stig