Fw190G losses, 11 Jan 1944, Italy.
 

Hi gents!

Question:

Does anybody have info, what were the losses of II./SG4 on 11 January 1944?
According M.Holms page, total month combat losses of Gruppe were 7 Fw 190G.
Also, any details about each II./SG4 loss of that day will be much appreciated.

Re: Fw190G losses, 11 Jan 1944, Italy.
 

There should be (at least) one aircraft lost, on operational flight. No details available.
regards

Re: Fw190G losses, 11 Jan 1944, Italy.
 

Peter - I know only 1 loss on that day with ex-zerstorer pilot killed, and want to be sure - are there other losses?

Also, are there any other Fw190 non-schlacht (i.e. Jagd) units?

And the last - will be very interesting, who were those Spitfires? ;)

Re: Fw190G losses, 11 Jan 1944, Italy.
 

Source does not mention any other II./SG 4 losses.
for other Fw 190 units, there were more...of course. They met 8.USAAF in the air ;)
Tony Wood lists mentions as follows:
Air Defence of the Reich [RLV]: 11. January 1944

Unit Commander Luftkampf Claims KiA WiA 100-60% 60%

I./ZG 26 n.n. 5 B-17: 1 B-17 HSS: 1 Spitfire 6 4 6 5
II./ZG 26 Hptm. Tratt 3 B-17 2 3 2 3
III./JG 54 Hptm. Schnell 9 B-17: 2 P-51 2 - 3 1
I./JG 302 Hptm. Lewens 1 B-17 - 3 3 2
Jasta Erla Hptm. Laube - 1 - 1 1
I-III./NJG 5 Oberst Radusch 2 B-17: 3 B-17 HSS - 3 3 1
Sd.Kdo.OKL n.n. 3 B-17 - - - -

Stab/JG 1 Oberst Oesau - - - - -
I./JG 1 Hptm. Schnoor 4 B-17: 1 B-17 HSS - - 6 3
II./JG 1 Hptm. Hoeckner 10 B-17: 1 B-17 HSS: 1 e.V. 1 1 3 1
III./JG 1 Hptm. Eberle 1 B-17: 1 e.V. 2 P-47 1 - 1 -
Sturmst. 1 Hptm. Kornatzki 1 B-17 - - - -
10./JG 2 Hptm. Schenkbier 1 B-17: 2 Type unknown - - 1 -
I./JG 3 Maj. Quaet-Faslem 2 B-17 - - - -
I./JG 300 Hptm. Stamp 1 B-17 - - - -
I-IV./NJG 1 Obstlt. Streib 3 B-17 - - - -
I-III./NJG 2 Maj. Sayn-Wittgenstein - 2 - 1 1

Stab/JG 11 Obstlt. Graf - - 1 - -
I./JG 11 Hptm. Hermichen 1 B-17: 1 B-17 HSS - - - 1
II./JG 11 Hptm. Specht 10 B-17: 1 P-47 3 4 4 6
III./JG 11 Hptm. Hackl 8 B-17: 1 B-17 HSS 3 - 4 1
10./JG 11 Oblt. Grosser - - - - -
11./JG 11 Oblt. Christmann - - 1 1 1
Z-ErgGr. Hptm. Habicht KiA 1 B-17 - - - -
I-III./NJG 3 Oberst Lent 7 B-17 7 1 4 1

I./JG 26 Hptm. Borris 9 B-17 + others - - 2 -
II./JG 26 Maj. Gäth 1 B-17: 1 B-17 HSS: 1 e.V.: 1 P-47 - - 1 -
V./KG 2 Hptm. Heintz - 2 1 1 1

II./JG 27 Hptm. Schroer 1 B-17 HSS: 6 B-24: 2 B-24 HSS: 1 P-47 - - - -

I./ZG 76 n.n. 9 B-17 1 - 2 1
III./ZG 76 Hptm. Kiel 1 B-17 3 - 2 -
I-III./NJG 6 Maj. Schaffer - 2 - 1 -
Claims & Casualties Reichsluftverteidigung 11.1.44: - - 38 22 53 31

Re: Fw190G losses, 11 Jan 1944, Italy.
 

Hi,

I have note of Fw.190G-3 (160370) Ofw.Hans Peterburs KIA - LK Spitfire Near Aquino.
Possibly that claimed by F/O Blackburn of 145 Squadron.

Cheers

Bruce Lander

Re: Fw190G losses, 11 Jan 1944, Italy.
 

II/SG 4 losses in January 1944:

_ one aircraft missing on the 3rd
_ one shot down by enemy aircraft on the 6th
_ one destroyed without enemy action on an operational flight on the 8th
_ one destroyed without enemy action on an operational flight on the 11th
_ one destroyed without enemy action on an operational flight on the 13th
_ one destroyed without enemy action on an operational flight on the 21st (and two other damaged, one by enemy action)
_ one shot down by enemy aircraft on the 22nd (and another damaged)
_ one shot down by enemy aircraft on the 23rd
_ one aircraft missing on the 24th
(_ one damaged without enemy action on an operational flight on the 26th)
_ one aircraft missing on the 28th
_ one destroyed without enemy action on non-operational flight on the 30th

Total: 11 aircraft lost and 4 damaged

Re: Fw190G losses, 11 Jan 1944, Italy.
 

Ups sorry Evgeny, I overlooked the G in the FW 190 version ;)

Re: Fw190G losses, 11 Jan 1944, Italy.
 

Bruce seems right , Petersburs hans , hv to be the right guy he flew for Skg210 on 1941, exact location of his death is Tommaso b, NO Salle b, Salerno

Remi

Re: Fw190G losses, 11 Jan 1944, Italy.
 

THX Gents!

Any details about last aircombat of Ofw. Peterburs? So, he was the only loss of his regiment in that fight. Were there any escort fighters for their Fw190G JaBo?

Also - is it known, how many Fw190 were claimed by 145 Sqdn in that fight?

Re: Fw190G losses, 11 Jan 1944, Italy.
 

Hi,
2/JG4 lost 3- 109's on this date.
Bf.109G-6 (410147) Uffz.Manfred Ehrig WIA - LK Spitfire near OSA
and 2 Bf.109G-6's lost in collision Lt.Georg Matz & Uffz.Hans Claussen both killed near Sezze.(sorry no W.Nr's)
F/Sgt Newman of 145 Squadron claimed a 109 so it's possible that JG.4 were escorting II/SG4 on this occasion

Cheers

Bruce Lander

Re: Fw190G losses, 11 Jan 1944, Italy.
 

Hi,

here are II/SG.4 losses in Italy Nov 43 to May 44 that I have - additions and corrections welcomed.

03/11/43 Uffz.Georg Walz KIA Fw.190G-3 (160386) Termoli A/A Fire
07/11/43 Oblt.Horst Doring KIA Fw.190G-3 (160406) Monte Lungo A/A
10/11/43 Lt.Gottschalk Renzow KIA Fw.190G-3 (160052) Venafro A/A Fire
11/11/43 Uffz.Wilhelm Bulow KIA Fw.190G-2 (181552) Anagni LK by P.51
20/11/43 Lt.Walter Sonnenberger KIA Fw.190 ??? S.Sesso A/A Fire
Uffz.Fredrich v Waldenburg KIA Fw.190G-3 (160389) Capua A/A Fire
Uffz.Heinrich Sommer KIA Fw.190G-3 (160318) Capua A/A Fire
Lt.Karl-Heinz Haye KIA Fw.190G-3 (160019) Capua A/A Fire
24/11/43 Fw.Heinz Denke WIA Fw.190G-3 (160040) nr Naples LK
Uffz.Oto Herschatt KIA Fw.190G-3 (160334) Montevenere Absturz
28/11/43 F.Uffz. Karl Jonas KIA Fw.190G-2 (181667) Castelfrentano LK Spitfire
Hpt.Werner Schulz KIA Fw.190G-2 (160066) Castelfrentano LK Spitfire
01/12/43 Obst v Muller Reinsburg KIFA Fw.190G-3 (160435) Castel de Sangro eng Fail
04/12/43 Uffz Paul Lennemann KIA Fw.190G-3 (160432) Littorio Absturz
15/12/43 Fw.Johan Nestler KIA Fw.190G-3 (181541) Roccamonfrina A/A Fire
19/12/43 Oblt Hermann Urban KIA Fw.190G-3 (160003) Aquino LK Spitfire

got to pause here but will post 1944 losses later

Cheers

Bruce Lander

Re: Fw190G losses, 11 Jan 1944, Italy.
 

Hi,
Back with II/SG.4 lsses for 1944 Italy Jan - May.

03/01/44 Uffz.Heinrich Schwierenburg KIA Fw190G-3 (160020) S.Elia A/A FSA
06/01/44 Lt.Gerhard Katzmann KIA Fw190G-3 (160410) S.Froscione LK Spitfire
08/01/44 Uffz.Helmut Schlang KIA Fw190G-3 (16009) Guionia Absturz Eng Failure
11/01/44 Ofw Hans Peterburs KIA Fw190G-3 (160370) NE Salle LK Spitfire
22/01/44 Fw.Franz Jungels WIA Fw190A-6 (740320) Nettuno -No Details
Ofw.Heinrich Jackel WIA Fw190G-3 (160331) Genzano - No Details
23/01/44 Ofr Rudolf Pundt KIA Fw190G-3 (160409) Viterbo - LK P40
24/01/44 Fw.Josef Rupping WIA Fw190G-3 (169482) Genzano/Roma LK P40
28/01/44 Uffz Bernhard Holl KIA Fw190G-3 (160073) NW Anzio LK
02/02/44 Uffz.Kurt Radebold KIA Fw190G-3 (160429) NW Anzio LK Spitfire
07/02/44 Lt Walter Klein KIA Fw190G-3 (160467) NW Anzio LK Spitfire
Uffz Georg Grandl KIA Fw190A-6 (470440) N Anzio LK Spitfire FSA
10/02/44 Fw.Jakob Kelner WIA Fw190A-6 (470429) NW Anzio LK
19/02/44 Uffz.Walter Schierhorn WIA Fw190A-6(470414) SW Bagno LK FSA
20/02/44 Hpt Erich Bunge WIA Fw190G-3 (160833) S.Aprilia A/A Fire FSA
21/02/44 Uffz.Hans Ehrens KIA Fw190G-3 (160048) E.Vetralla LK
FjUffz.Manfred Stapf KIA Fw190A-6 (470618) SE.Roma LK
27/02/44 Lt.Hans Seibert WIA Fw190G-3 (160832) Civita Castellana LK
Spitfire
FwGerhard Barth KIA Fw190A-6 (470406) W.Aprilia LK Spitfire
14/03/44 FjUffz.Peter Fischer KA Fw190G-3 (160357) Viterbo Absturz
17/03/44 Oblt Erhard Herges KIA Fw190G-3 (160479) N.Aquilara LK Spitfire
22/03/44 Lt Bernd Haumann KIA Fw190G-3 (160842) Viterbo LK Spitfire
Fw.Karl Friebel KIA Fw190A-6 (470448) Viterbo LK Spitfire
06/04/44 Uffz,Johannes Kiefer WIA Fw190G-3 (160818) Perugia Absturz
12/04/44 Fw.Karl-August Heberle KIA Fw190G-3 (160848) Roma LK Spitfire
Fw.Hermann Muller KIA Fw190G-3 (160825) Monte Cimina Collided
with Bf.109
18/04/44 FjFw.Karl-Heinz Reichardt KIA Fw190G-8 (190032) N.Roma LK P47
Uffz.Erich Scherffius KIA Fw190G-3 (160837) N.Roma P47
21/04/44 Uffz.Fritz Wipprecht WIA Fw190G-8 (190010) W.Nettuno LK
Spitfire
13/05/44 Lt.Gunther Entres KIA Fw190G-8 (190068) ?? LK Spitfire
Lt.Gerhard Gartner WIA Fw190A-6 (470444) S.Giovanni LK Spitfire
FSA
18/05/44 Hpt.Gerhard Walther KIA Fw190A-6 (470409) Scandriglia LK
Spitfire FSA
19/05/44 Lt.Karl-Heinz Ahrens WIA Fw190G-8 (190062) Montefiascone LK
Spitfire FSA
21/05/44 Lt.Herbert Bertram KIA Fw190F-8 (580049) Cassino LK Spitfire
Ofw.Hans Schmitt KIA Fw190F-8 (580444) Roma LK Spitfire
Lt.Horst Kulpa KIA Fw190G-8 (190057) Viterbo LK Spitfire
Uffz.Gerhard Assmann KIA Fw190G-3 (160860) Viterbo LK Spitfire
Uffz.Rolf Manske KIA Fw190F-8 (930505) Roma LK Spitfire
25/05/44 Uffz.Gunther Panknin Fw190F-8 (580458) Montefiascone LK
26/05/44 Fw.Heinrich Langheit KIA Fw190F-8 (580586) Lake Bracciono LK
Spitfire
Obgef.Alex Sahse KIA Fw190F-8 (580454) Lake Bracciono LK
Spitfire
27/05/44 Lt.Otto Kallenberger KIA Fw190G-8 (190048) Amelia LK Spitfire

My source for the above came from a friend in Cologne back in 1981 when I was working on a project there with Atlas Copco/DavyMcKee. He was a fellow researcher and was very generous with information he had gathered on the Luftwaffe in Italy -sadly now passed away

Cheers

Bruce Lander

Re: Fw190G losses, 11 Jan 1944, Italy.
 

THX a lot Bruce!

Re: Fw190G losses, 11 Jan 1944, Italy.
 

For April and May 1944 you can pick up a few additions from the articles on my website, Kittyhawk versus Fw 190: Rieti April 1944 and Schlachtgeschwader 4: last battles in Italy.

I owe most of my loss data to J. Richard Smith, supplemented a little by work of my own.

Re: Fw190G losses, 11 Jan 1944, Italy.
 

Interesting details: Thanks

Re: Fw190G losses, 11 Jan 1944, Italy.
 

Hello Nick,

On 7. febr. 1944 a brit report Pro31 /4911, state that a pilot was made prisoner , detail as above

6.SG4 F A FJ Spit FW190A-5 WeE

No name given , hv you found anythingelse upon this case ??

Remi

Re: Fw190G losses, 11 Jan 1944, Italy.
 

Fw. Walter Klein, shot down by Spitfires on 7 February 1944, bailed out and spent about a month in hospital.

Re: Fw190G losses, 11 Jan 1944, Italy.
 

Ok , Nick , now I see

Remi

Re: Fw190G losses, 11 Jan 1944, Italy.
 

Hi
As an addition here are my list of lsses for I/SG4 - updates welcomed-

09/02/44 Lt.Kurt Kreig (2) KIA Fw.190G-2 (180854) Red H Absturz N.E.Piacenza
12/02/44 Uffz.Richard Gross (3) KIA Fw.190G-3 (160473) Green B. A/A S.Vittoria
14/02/44 Fj.Uffz.Bruno Nelte (3) KIA Fw190A-6 (470422) Absturz Viterbo
20/02/44 Gef. Karl Schultze (1) KIA Fw190G-3 (160500) Absurz Viterbo
22/02/44 Lt.Gunther Gerken v Schassen (1) KIA Fw190G-3 (160495) Green H
LK Spitfire S.E.Rome
Fw.Karl Sieder (1) KIA Fw190A-6 (470254) Green 6 Absturz Aprilia
11/03/44 Oblt.Hans v Prittwitz (3) & Ofw.Hans Werner Gulich (Stab) killed in Sm82 4V+CT Absturz Viterbo
18/03/44 Hpt.Karl Langenburg (1) KIA Fw190A-6 (470412) White 7 Absturz Rieti
20/03/44 Fw.Lothar Meyer (2) KIA Fw190A-6 (470250) Black 3 LK Spitfire Nettuno
Fw.Alfred Hofmeister (2) KIA Fw190A-6 (470409) Black 9 LK Spitfire Nettuno
Fw.Mathias Heigenhauser (2) KIA Fw190A-6 (470635) Black 4
LK Spitfire Nettuno
22/03/44 Ofw.Heinz Fischer (1) WIA Fw190A-6 (470639) White 9 A/A Cassino
27/03/44 Ofw.Georg Gertz (1) WIA Fw190A-6 (470267) White 2 LK Spitfire
Anzio
29/03/44 Fw.Erhard Kachele (1) KIA Fw190A-6 (470415) White 1 LK Nettuno
Fw.Theo Benien (1) KIA Fw190A-6 (470642) White 7 A/A Nettuno
StFw.Fritz Welzel (3) PoW Fw190A-6 (470639) White 6 LK Nettuno
Fw.Karl Wentker (2) KIA Fw190A-6 (470258) Black 2 A/A Nettuno
07/04/44 Hpt.Heinrich Zwipf (Stab) KIA Fw190A-6 (470644) LK P40 Rieti
Uffz.Kurt Fischr (1) KIA Fw190A-6 (470626) Green 4 LK P40 Rieti
12/04/44 Fw.Edgar Hajek (2) KIA Fw190A-6 (470641) Green 3 collided with Spitfire N.W.Rome
03/05/44 Lt.Heinrich Forster (1) KIA Fw190G-8 (190064) White 6 LK Spitfire Greppo
14/05/44 Oblt.Heinrich Karras (1) KIA Fw190A-6 (470637) White 3 LK Spitfire S.E.Cassino
15/05/44 Uffz.Karl-Albrecht Ronsch (1) KIA Fw190A-6 (47645) White 6 LK
P47 Diavalo
21/05/44 Oblt.Robert Reiprich (3) KIA Fw190A-6 (470454) Green 1 LK Spitfire E.Rome
Hpt.Rolf Strossner (3) KIA Fw190A-6 (470452) Green 5 LK Spitfire E.Rome
25/05/44 Fw.Helmut Hellerbrand (1) WIA Fw190A-6 (470586) Green 12
LK Spitfire S.E Montalto
Lt.Theodor Petz (3) KIA Fw190G-8 (190063) Black 3 LK Spitfire
Tarquinia
Uffz.Richard Ukat (3) KIA Fw190A-6 (470632) Green 4 LK Spitfire
S.E.Montalto

Cheers

Bruce Lander

Re: Fw190G losses, 11 Jan 1944, Italy.
 

A little correction to the II./SG4 list: the pilot killed on 17 march 1944 was Erhard Merges. AFAIK he's still buried at Oriolo Romano, his grave being guarded by two propeller blades coming from a Ca.133 (aircraft not connected with his death).

Gianandrea

Re: Fw190G losses, 11 Jan 1944, Italy.
 

Hi Bruce

22/03/44 Ofw.Heinz Fischer (1) WIA Fw190A-6 (470639) White 9 A/A Cassino

and

StFw.Fritz Welzel (3) PoW Fw190A-6 (470639) White 6 LK Nettuno

Is this ok ?

Regards

Peter van Gogh

Re: Fw190G losses, 11 Jan 1944, Italy.
 

Hi Peter,

my typo - sorry the W.Nr of Welzel's 190 was 470638.
Thanks for spotting that

Cheers

Bruce Lander

Re: Fw190G losses, 11 Jan 1944, Italy.
 

To what Staffel in II./SG4 belonged Ofw. Hans Peterburs?