ErprGr210 or EGR 210
 

Hi! :)

I asked before, but nobody answered, so I re-try ....

I need informations about ErprGr210 or EGR 210 , especially about its Bf 110 during the Battle of Britain, 1940. I especially need to know:

- Under which Command the unit operated (Luftflotte or Fliegerkorps).

- How many Bf 110 were available / combat ready on august 13th, 1940.

Thanks! :)

Re: ErprGr210 or EGR 210
 

... and you were told you can find that information in "Bombsights Over England: The History of Erprobungsgruppe 210, Luftwaffe Fighter - Bomber Unit In The Battle Of Britain" by John J. Vasco. ISBN 0 9515737 0 5. JAC Publications.

Available in all good book shops.

Even in Italy. :D

Re: ErprGr210 or EGR 210
 

Really you told me? In my previous post "Bf 110 in Battle of Britain" this book did not appeared. I didn't knew. Ok, thanks!

Re: ErprGr210 or EGR 210
 

Max,
The JAC Publications first edition sold out long ago. The second edition, published by Schiffer, is still available, titled 'Messerschmitt Bf 110, Bombsights Over England, Erprobungsgruppe 210 in the Battle of Britain'. ISBN: 0-7643-1445-9.

Re: ErprGr210 or EGR 210
 

Does this mean I have a priceless item then John? :D

Machinist, Mr Vasco's books on the Bf 110 are a "must have" for anyone researching that area. Not to forget Mr Cornwell's co-authorship of "Zerstorer", a book I am busy re-reading at the moment.

Just one question though John: No book on the Bf 110 during the Polish campaign?

Re: ErprGr210 or EGR 210
 

Max,
No, I started with 210, then the joint work with Peter C. And then on to SKG 210/ZG 1, the joint works with Fernando, and the books in the 'Classic' series. As well as a side effort on Fronhofer's 9./JG 26 photo collection for Schiffer. Along the way I gave Eric Mombeek his first outlet by publishing his JG 1 book. Never went back into the Polish campaign in any great detail. That will be covered now by Larry Hickey's EOE project, no doubt in excellent detail.

As for your 1990 1st edition of Bombsights, I've seen them going for funny money on the internet. And if it is one of the 100 plate editions... But I have THE copy of that 1st edition. Title page signed by about a dozen former flying members of the unit, together with plate No.001.

The second editio has updated information, Lt. Erich Beudel's Flugbuch added to the Flugbuch appendix, and a whole lot more photos.

Re: ErprGr210 or EGR 210
 

Understood, thanks! :)

Re: ErprGr210 or EGR 210
 

Luftflotte 2 - Fliegerkorps 2 - Kanalkafu Fink (KG 2) upon their move to Denain in France on 10th July 1940.

Re: ErprGr210 or EGR 210
 

Here you are:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Messerschmit...9337717&sr=1-5

Re: ErprGr210 or EGR 210
 

Wow! Well, you did a hell of a lot of research for that book and no doubt spent an equal amount of time and money on it, so for you to have that is only right. I'd like to hear a few stories about those "Wespengeschwader" reunions you attended though.... :D

Re: ErprGr210 or EGR 210
 

Beleive me, I want to hear them too, very much :)

Re: ErprGr210 or EGR 210
 

Good! Thanks! :)

Re: ErprGr210 or EGR 210
 

Thank you :)
Just ordered my copy from Flash Aviation in the Netherlands:)

Finally I get just the kind of information I need.
I have started building a campaign in IL-2:1946 and this time, I intend to build a campaign solely based on actions and missions of Erprobungsgruppe 210.

I expect your book to be just the thing to build a scenario on.:wink:

Re: ErprGr210 or EGR 210
 

Max, This thread disappeared off the radar pretty quickly, and I have only just picked up on it again with the latest post.

Here's one that I found hilarious: A well-known German researcher/author was at one of the reunions, and we were introduced. He produced a load of photos and as we were going through them, I said of one photo, 'Good view of an Erganzüngs Zerstörergruppe Bf 110'. 'No', he replied, 'that is V.(Z)/LG 1'. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. This guy could not differentiate between the HUGE wolf's head in the photo, and the tiny V.(Z)/LG 1 emblem. Nothing I said could convince him otherwise. When my good friend Karl-Fritz Schröder asked me what had gone on a couple of minutes later and I explained, he made a remark that I will never repeat anywhere...

Re: ErprGr210 or EGR 210
 

Mr. Vasco, are you familiar with the sim IL-2?

Re: ErprGr210 or EGR 210
 

I have the basic version on my PC, and get shot down whenever I fly...

Re: ErprGr210 or EGR 210
 

John - try to be bortfunker of Bf110 then :)

Re: ErprGr210 or EGR 210
 

My version doesn't have Bf 110s. I think it's the original version. Every time I fly a Bf 109 of a Fw 190, I get shot down by a Russian fighter. I think the pilot of the Russian fighter is named Velichko...!

Re: ErprGr210 or EGR 210
 

John: actually, I am an assault pilot, for the red side I fly only Il-2 :) And if I fly blues, I always choose Zerstorer :)

Re: ErprGr210 or EGR 210
 

My version if Il- 2 contains these Bf110 subtypes:

C-1, C-4, C-4/B, C-7, D-3, E-1, F-2, G-2, G-4
:D

And because I built a "pilot career" for the Bf-110 which spans the entire 2nd world war I got to fly the Bf110 very often and that's how I came to like it a lot.

Compared to other assault aircraft (in the sim) the Bf110 is easier to fly, faster, and has good armament. It's survivability is a lot better than most of its ground attack / heavy fighter contemporaries like the Pe-3bis, the Battle, Blenheim or the IL-2.

Here's some assorted screenies:

Re: ErprGr210 or EGR 210
 

Sjonne - I remember, we have several missions together in AirForce War I :) (My callsign is =KAG=Bersrk)

P.S. Bf110C-4/B never existed. Usually it is misidentificated Bf110C-7.

Re: ErprGr210 or EGR 210
 

Salute! :) I had no idea that would be you! Your flying kicks rear end by the way!

As for the 110C-7, I know that IRL there was no real C4/B. That's a way to refer to a C-4 with bomb racks.
Also I read that the C-7 had uprated engines (601P) and hence that one could carry 2x SC-500 versus 2x 250 on the C-4. I don't have much to go on (3 books and wikipedia) and even between these you find differences.

If you ask me, the IL-2 mod community might have modeled the C-6 (with the 30mm MG101 cannon as flown on early Erpr.Gr.210 anti shipping missions) but instead chose to do the C-7. Having said that, the C-7 is quite a nice machine with good speed to stay ahead of most enemies in IL-2.;)

Re: ErprGr210 or EGR 210
 

Sjonnie:

"Original" C-7's had the same engine as C-1/2/4 and all D-0/1/2/3 - DB601A.

But they were able to carry SC1000, 2 x SC500 e.t.c. even with that engines in 1940.

After winter 40/41, many weared / old C-2/4 were "upgraded" in repair stations to "E" standart, and renamed C-7 in most documents. Upgrades were different from rep. station to station, and from a/c to a/c. Main were:
-Armored windglass of pilot
-Pilot armor plate
-DB601N
-Underwing bombracks
-scissors on tailwheel.
-equip,ent, like Pitot tubes e.t.c.
-some little other (trim plates e.t.c.)

So, Bf110C-7 of "1940" and Bf110C-7 "of 1941" are very different aircrafts.