NAG 12 pilots
 

Hi

Looking for info on these NAG 12 posable losses:-

Major Fleischmann, Gruppenkomendeur lost to Spitfires over Albania(April 44?).

Hptm Schulze-Quente, Saffelkapitan lost to Spitfires in a Fi156 over Albania.

Olt Sylvester

Olt Scholl failed to return about May 5th 1944.

I think these were all lost between Jan 44 to 11th May 44.

Regards
David

Re: NAG 12 pilots
 

1 April 1944: Gruppenkommandeur Maj. Werner Fleischmann shot down by Allied fighters while taking off from or landing at Devoli airfield where he had gone to fly some missions with 1. Staffel. Very badly wounded, he later died while receiving medical care.

Hptm. Günther Schultze-Quentell, Staka 1./NAGr. 12, KIA 27 April 1944 - no details.

I have nothing in my records on Sylvester and Scholl. In our officer data base, there are no Sylvesters but there are 6 Scholls, of which two might have been pilots (Oblt. Rolf Scholl and a Oblt. Rudolf-Heinz Scholl).


HLdeZ/DGS

Re: NAG 12 pilots
 

Re: NAG 12 pilots
 

2 4 44 ST NAGr,12 Berat FP 1,5 km SW A FJ verbrannt BF109G-6U3 161073 RL+JU/Ro1 100 x Fleischmann werner major f kdr verl, erleg, Reise an Besprechung b, 1,NAGr,12

5 5 44 1 NAGr,12 F Bari Raum X BF109G x Scholl oblt f b, nacht wurde ein FI156 gesendet z, Rettungseinsatz

28 1 44 NAGr,12 F Adriatik See LFK BF109G-6 20368 We6 100 x Silvester ltn f gegen 08h30

27 4 44 1 NAGr,12 Scutari 20 km SO A FJ FI156C-3Trop 1379 Y9+AH 100 2 Verb. Flug

Schultze-quentell günter hptm f t sta,ka, 1041 2,H14 /1,NAGr,11 0144 NAGr,12
Krämer walter uffz f t

Rémi

Re: NAG 12 pilots
 

Thank you all very much for the info. I have looked at the HW 5 files but alas these days I can not get to the NA, still now that they are opening on Saturdays(from2010) I may get to look at these files again.
Regards
David

Re: NAG 12 pilots
 

Hi David,

28 Jan 1944 Lt. Otto Silwester Bf.109G-6 (20368) White 6 1/NAG.12
Uffz.Wolfgang Ostwald Bf.109G-6 (20353) White 8 1/NAG.12

Both reported shot down by Spitfires East of Bari over Sea.

Probably those claimed by P/O. N D Harrison and F/Sgt. T A Miller of 1435 Squadron

Cheers

Bruce Lander

Re: NAG 12 pilots
 

So far we have SYLVESTER, SILVESTER, and SILWESTER..........keep 'em coming, guys, this is getting interesting! But I think the last one is probably the right one. The Kracker Archive has an Uffz. Walter SILWESTER with 12./JG 77, but no others.

L.

Re: NAG 12 pilots
 

They've been open on Saturdays for years, David (which has been very helpful to me). In 2010 they will be closing on Mondays and the opening hours Tuesday – Saturday will change a bit .

Re: NAG 12 pilots
 

Hi,
just for interest here is my listing of 1/NAG 12 losses in 1943-45:-

1/NAG.12


13.10.1943. Lt. Harald Arneth Bf.109G-4 (15748) White 5 – MIA Podgorica
Fw. Georg Kessler Bf.109G-4 (15635) White 1 - MIA Podgorica
Hpt. Fritz-Otto Leuze Bf'109G - MIA Vico di Gargano
Fw. Walter Rustler Bf.109G -MIA Vico di Gargano


26.11.1943 Ofw. Franz Bickhofe Bf.109G-6 (410067) White 3 -MIA S.E Vlore


02.12.1943 Oblt. Hans Marquardt Bf.109G-6 (18758) White 6 - KIA LK Spitfire, W Fier


18.12.1943 Hpt. Siegfried Gambal Bf.109G-6 (26132) White 4 – MIA Taranto


03.01.1944 Gef. Ludwig Palme Bf.109G-6 (20684) White 3 – KIA LK Spitfire, Brindisi


28.01.1944 Lt.Otto Silwester Bf.109G-6 (20368) White 6 - KIA LK Spitfire, E Bari
Uffz.Wolfgang Ostwald Bf.109G-6 (20353) White 8 – KIA LK Spitfire, E Bari


02.04.1944 Maj.Werner Fleischmann Bf.109G-6 (161073) WIA/KIA LK Devoli FP


28.04.1944 Hpt.Gunther Schultze-Quentell Fi.156c-3/Trop (1379) Y9+AH LK Scutari


05.05.1944 Oblt.Rudolf Scholl Bf.109G-5 (110217) White 8 – KIA LK Spitfire, NE Bari


11.05.1944 Oblt.Heinrich Milke Bf.109G-6 (20670) White 8 – PoW LK Spitfire, E Bari
Uffz.Willi Schmatte Bf.109G-8 (710086) White 16 – KIA LK Spitfre ,E.Bari


23.06.1944 Ofw.Arthur Geyer Bf.109G-6 (18878) White 7 – KIA LK Spitfire, NW Vlore


20.08.1944 Uffz.Helmut Wittenberg Bf.109G-6 (18678) White 2 - MIA Mostar


20.02.1945 Ofw.Hans Wunderlich Bf.109G-8 ( 200669) White 10 – KIFA C/L Zagreb


23.02.1945 Stfw. Karl Neubauer Bf.108 (5118) GK+RK - KIA Shot down by own AA
Uffz. Karl Wiborg


25.02.1945 Uffz.Heinich Voss Bf.109G-10 (510580) White 8 KIA Absturz E Rijeka


12.03.1945 Ofw.Wilhelm Koch Bf.109G-8 (200318) White 5 KIA Absturz Zagreb


Any additions/corrections welcomed


Cheers


Bruce Lander

Re: NAG 12 pilots
 

Thank you Bruce just what I was looking for, I had got the pilots names from Oblt.Heinrich Milke POW report when he was shot down on the
11-05-44. The report thought that the other 109 had got away.

Nick I just did not realise that the NA WAS OPEN Saturdays, thanks.

Regards

David

Re: NAG 12 pilots
 

Quite interesting list, some questions araise

Gef. Ludwig Palme Bf.109G-6 (20684) White 3 – KIA LK Spitfire, Brindisi


20694 ??




05.05.1944 Oblt.Rudolf Scholl Bf.109G-5 (110217) White 8 – KIA LK Spitfire, NE Bari

110217 Wn comes from ??, an 110217 was accepted by the NAGr.13 on 17.mai 1944, but as this plane is known to hv been in service with NAG12 , doubt that he was transfered in France ..


23.06.1944 Ofw.Arthur Geyer Bf.109G-6 (18878) White 7 – KIA LK Spitfire, NW Vlore


20.08.1944 Uffz.Helmut Wittenberg Bf.109G-6 (18678) White 2 - MIA Mostar

Where hv you founded these 2 ??


20.02.1945 Ofw.Hans Wunderlich Bf.109G-8 ( 200669) White 10 – KIFA C/L Zagreb


Agram/pleso Übersch, L BF109G-8 200699 ???

23.02.1945 Stfw. Karl Neubauer Bf.108 (5118) GK+RK - KIA Shot down by own AA
Uffz. Karl Wiborg


Zapresic Agram nordwestl, Eig, FFL BF108 5519 ????


25.02.1945 Uffz.Heinich Voss Bf.109G-10 (510580) White 8 KIA Absturz E Rijeka



F Fiume b Eig, FFL BF109G-6 41080 100 x Voss heinrich

Remi

Re: NAG 12 pilots
 

Hello Bruce,

Thank you for sharing your loss date. I compared it to my own list and I have as well a few deviations:

Here I have, as Remi, WNr.20694 listed.


23.06.1944 Ofw.Arthur Geyer Bf.109G-6 (18878) White 7 – KIA LK Spitfire, NW Vlore[/quote]

I have this WNr. as lost already on the 06.10.1943
Bf 109G-6 WNr.18878 06.10.43 8./JG77 Uffz. Heinz Kindervater (†), Luftkampf - Absturz, in die See (zwischen La Spezia und Metato) - 100% KN+CY

Two entries for this one
Bf 109G-6 WNr.18678 26.08.43 II./JG53 (/.), Bombenwurf, Fl.Pl. Cancello - 100%
Bf 109G-6 WNr.18678 09.09.43 II./JG53 N.N., von Briten gefunden - Schrott, Grazzaniese,

I have also this loss with the WNr. as 200699
Bf 109G-8 WNr.200699 20.02.45 1./NAGr12 Ofw. Hans Wunderlich (†), Überschlag bei Landung, Fl.Pl. Agram-Pleso - 40% ws.10+

WNr.5519 should be the correct one, as this WNr. belongs to a Bf 108B-1 produced by SNCAN and coded GK+RK

The WNr. found in the GQM list is 41080, which is obviously incomplet. Your 510580 is possible but also questionable because it is not a G-10, but close to a G-6 production block.

best rergards,
Tomislav

Re: NAG 12 pilots
 

Hi Remi + Tomislav,

thanks for your replies, I got the original lists in 1981 from a German engineer I became friendly with when I was working on a big project with Atlas Copco/Davy McKee in Cologne. The lists were hand written and some of the letters/numbers were a bit ambiguous and accordingly could have been mis-read by me.
He gave me loss lists for Erg Gr Sud, SKG10, JG.4 and SG.4 for the Mediterranean area 1943 - 45 all which are possibly suffering from the same mis-reading !

Cheers

Bruce Lander

Re: NAG 12 pilots
 

oi!

Does anyone from You have maybe some more info about Uffz.Heinrich Voss, maybe photo of him, or of plane or anything else. I was on his crash site and found there few parts.

thanks
Raus