Original Combat Report?
 

One for VoyTech or some of our Polish experts?

Currently on e-bay a Combat Report. Item number:

310193677471

Any views as to its originality? (Currently being discussed on the Key Publishing Forum.)

Re: Original Combat Report?
 

Happy New Year Andy,

Another spurious one I suspect though the details described all check out. I have ZUMBACH flying as Red 3 on that occasion. Buyer beware.

Re: Original Combat Report?
 

Peter

And the same to you and yours!

Very odd that the Combat Report quotes the serial number for Wunsche's Hurricane which the writer sees shot down! Of course, that detail could have been added in by the Intelligence Officer but it does seem a tad odd. As for the body of the report, note that he talks about his "cannon fire". Whilst it might be a generic term, perhaps, for his gunfire would he have really used that expression? I agree that, generally, the circumstances of the engagement tally although I see that Robert Gretzyngier says that Henneberg was Red 3. Not sure what the ORB gives? Presumably, Peter, it gives Zumbach as Red Three as I imagine this to be your source?

Re: Original Combat Report?
 

The next step would be to consult the available combat reports of the day to see what is really what, if you know what I mean.

Stephen

Re: Original Combat Report?
 

Andy/Stephen,

My notes were transcribed back in the 1970's during privileged access to the ORB and Combat Reports then held by the AHB in Queen Anne's Gate in London.

Re: Original Combat Report?
 

Peter

Herewith a copy of Johnny Kent's Combat Report (certainly original!) for the same action, in which he also gives F/O Henneberg as Red 3.

Re: Original Combat Report?
 

Andy,

I stand, (sit, or kneel - as you wish) corrected. But does this make it genuine I wonder ?

Re: Original Combat Report?
 

Prostrate will be fine, Peter! :-)

Intuition - and lots more that is rather more tangible besides intuition - tells me this is a fake. It also has all the trademarks of other known fakes in this genre.

However, this will make you smile. The vendor has evidently declared to an enquiry via e-bay that it is certainly genuine.........because he has had it carbon dated. Honestly, that is what he has stated!! He probably also had that old typewriter he bought at the boot sale carbon dated, too. Just to be sure. Luckily for him this Combat Report is not a carbon copy else he'd probably be in trouble with the science. ;-)

Re: Original Combat Report?
 

Of interest, I have recently come across a German logbook in which the flights are recorded as being daylight over UK in a Do 217 (not from KG 2 or KG 40) in 1942. Some flights lasted 6 hours and then there were 3 flights in a 24 hour period. When queried as to what the units was, I was told (in good faith) that it was an experimental unit. Intuition.......?????

Re: Original Combat Report?
 

And probably written in biro, Chris, with a felt-tip pen swastika on the cover!

Its amazing how much fake stuff in the way of paperwork there is coming onto the market. Some of it is easy to spot, and some of it laughable. Some, though, is very good and often utilises blank (original) forms and documents to add credibility. Apart from conning collectors there is also the danger that it will sometimes confuse researchers, historians and writers. I am sure that has already happened in some cases.

Re: Original Combat Report?
 

Priceless - someone clearly missed their true vocation as a comedy writer. Probably also strained through a muslin bag to guarantee authenticity ?

Re: Original Combat Report?
 

I think "priceless" is also how the e-bay vendor considers this item. Starting price a mere £500.00.....although obviously that includes the Certificate of Carbon Dating.

Re: Original Combat Report?
 

Fortunately there are no takers yet. To be fair to the seller he has a good record - still on 100%, but I certainly would not part with 500 notes for a combat report containing a serial number - highly unusual to say the least.

Ian

Re: Original Combat Report?
 

I note that the seller has added a statement saying that he has heard from several people suggesting the item to be a fake. He goes on to state that he has had it "verified" (as genuine) by Ray Funnel of the RAF Museum.

Notwithstanding that statement (allegedly) made by a member of the RAF Museum staff I do not feel that this pronouncement, or the document in question, has any credibility.

VoyTech's useful post on another forum about this matter seems to have helped confirm the doubtfulness of this items provenance.

Re: Original Combat Report?
 

The ink from the typing machine looks too fresh and too consistent, and I would much prefer a full signature than just "John". Then again, I have no idea how this particular pilot signed off his reports. That being said, it is a lot of money for something questionable.

I'll wager my hard earned money elsewhere.

Stephen

Re: Original Combat Report?
 

Comparing this report to other Combat Reports from 303 Squadron including other reports of F/O Henneberg I wouldn't pay even half of the "buy it now" price.

Re: Original Combat Report?
 

Looks like the item has been pulled, I just hope someone hasn't done a deal!

Re: Original Combat Report?
 

I think if you look on another forum you will find a post from the vendor explaining that he has, indeed, pulled it and declined to do a "buy it now" sale either.

Notwithstanding the rather odd "carbon dating" suggestion I think he genuinely believed (believes) it to be the real deal and was selling it in good faith.

With weight of opinion seemingly suggesting there were, at the very least, some strong doubts about its originality it would appear that the vendor has willingly taken those views on board.

Whatever the position with this Combat Report might be, it is an absolute fact that there ARE forgeries of this type of document out there and this example ticked just about all of the boxes.

Re: Original Combat Report?
 

Interesting that on another forum the vendor has displayed three other Combat Reports he has. Incredibly, one of them is purporting to be the Johnny Kent Combat Report I have! It varies considerably (one side instead of two) and is certainly a very poor fake. Truly incredible coincidence that a copy of the original I posted up should appear within days!! There is virtually no similarity between the two.

View here:

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/sho...t=97015&page=3

Post #79 refers.

I rest my case!