Re: Luftwaffe POWs in Russia
 

Here is a report about a Luftwaffe pilot who was a POW in Russia.


http://www.wmwa.org/wbnews/BobChubb-notice.html



And more info about his book:

http://www.authorhouse.com/BookStore...x?bookid=25659


Usual disclaimer,
Ed

Re: Luftwaffe POWs in Russia
 

I have never heard of a Gottfried Dulias as a fighter pilot, never heard that somebody wuth that name scored 5 victories and there is i.m.h.o no record showing a loss of a Bf 109 with a pilot of that name. Does anybody has hard evidence or is this a big fake?

Re: Luftwaffe POWs in Russia
 

I understand your skepticism. Here's a few more words about this person.


http://www.luftwaffereenactors.org/Dulias.htm



Ed


Of course, it would be a service to determine if this man is really a former Luftwaffe pilot.

Re: Luftwaffe POWs in Russia
 

O my god, do I see a hoax here...????? I would be happy to be corrected but everything points in one way. JG 53 was never stationed near Aachen in late 1944....no record of any victories by a Lt. Dulias.

Re: Luftwaffe POWs in Russia
 

End of August/beginning of September 1944 II./JG 53 was stationed at Eindhoven. If you call the Aachen area North-West Germany Aachen is a suburb from Eindhoven or the other way around.

Jaap

Re: Luftwaffe POWs in Russia
 

There are many credibly sounding details of his pilot's career... except for the I-16s he shot down over Hungary.

Anyway, I am looking forward to hearing more details about this guy, before deciding to buy his book, or not.

Re: Luftwaffe POWs in Russia
 

Apparently he is, or was, a member of this group.


http://members.tripod.com/SOARR/eagle.HTM


And associated with a few other German pilots.



Ed

Re: Luftwaffe POWs in Russia
 

I wouldn't call that "associated" with other German pilots. May be they gathered on invitation of the organization and did not know each other. The way he likes to wear his uniform makes me wonder....... There is no Dulias in Prien's JG 53, no Dulias in loss records as far as I know and no Dulias in the microfilms of claims..... Add several things together..... Until somebody can show hard evidence, I am not believing it.

Re: Luftwaffe POWs in Russia
 

"associated" Very well.


Ed

Re: Luftwaffe POWs in Russia
 

I met Gottfried at a church in NJ, He was giving a lecture about his time as a POW in Russia. The book was not yet finished. He seemed very genuine, even breaking down at times. I did not read the book but I think he wants to tell more about mans inhumanity to man than about being a fighter pilot. He had a good deal of photos of himself from flight school to front line service. Maybe sixty odd years latter but you could still tell it was him. If I remember correctly he told me that one of his victories was not confirmed. I may still have his address if I can find it I will write to him. Any questions you would like me to ask him? Please be nice ! just because we great historianshttp://forum.12oclockhigh.net/images/icons/icon6.gif have not heard of him does not make his story a hoax.

Re: Luftwaffe POWs in Russia
 

Sorry first time I tried to use one of the icons.

Re: Luftwaffe POWs in Russia
 

The doubt is not if he was with the Luftwaffe or not. One of the sites shows him as a Flieger (lowest rank, private in the LW). Millions were in the Luftwaffe he could have been one of them. The point what he claims to have been or has done. He claims to have flown in JG 53 as a Lt. in late 1944, shot down two Spitfires and later flew on the Eastern front with JG 53 (could only have been I./JG 53 if it is true) more claims there (sometimes on sites referred to as Yak's otherwise as I-16's) and shot down on 5th March 1945 and became POW.

Luftwaffe records or claims a relatively complete till late 1944. Records about losses relatively complete till March 1945. It is known that I./JG 53 flew no missions between 2. and 8. March 1945. Nowhere is there any reference to a lt. Gottfried Dulias.

If Mr. Dulias has pictures or documents it can be possible to verify his story. Maybe also not of these pic's show him as only a Flieger or Gefreiter. Finally, his story can be easily verified through the WASt. If he give shis permission his Personelfile can be obtained.

Finally.....his habit of walking in a LW Uniform does not make him very credible...

Enough said, don't want to waist more time on this guy, which, until proven otherwise, is a hoax to me.

Cheers,

John M.

Re: Luftwaffe POWs in Russia
 

An other interesting POW of Kursk was Olt. Lüty Pilot of JG-52, he was interogated by Soviets about JG-52.

About Dullas, I believe him more than Prien or the documents used for Priens book. I was myself in BA-MA and found indices of falsified loss/strength statistics. It is well known that Wehrmacht in the whole had very wrong loss figures (much too low).

Re: Luftwaffe POWs in Russia
 

Hi, John.


Although it seems that I./JG 53 did not fly any missions between 2nd and 8th of March 1945, I have three losses recorded for the 6th, two of which would be accidents (category 20-24 probably) while the last one would be a category 1, although no crew member info was given. Not an operative mission perhaps, but they did thus have multiple aircraft in the air also between the dates You mentioned, and there might have been sorties not counting as 'Feindflüge' on the 4th.

Also, this is late in the war, and there surely are losses that are not recorded in the available files for this period.

I also find the details a bit 'fishy', and will ask a friend of mine who are VERY well into the opposite side if it at all is possible that the JG 53 would oppose I-16's this late in the war....

Also, I agree with You John: Dr. Prien has certainly had access to the NVM's of JG 53 during his research for the books he wrote on the unit, these however seems to thin out also after about February 10th 1945.....

So - we cannot really know without pulling his file at Aachen (or are they in Freiburg yet??), which should exist since he claims he was a Lt.

As he was a Lt and trained in 1943, and had a relatively short operational career, he would have had to attend the KS as far as I can see. (Thus a Tr.O and not a Kr.O?? right??)

Regard,
Andreas

Re: Luftwaffe POWs in Russia
 

O yeah, he must have been a Tr.O. and not a Kr.O. This means LKS. See also his age (born 1925....). So if he is genuine he must have been a Fhr., Ofhr. and then Lt. Look also at other Forums, several have been asking themselves this question too....is Mr. Dulias speaking the truth....??? It is not only the loss on that said date, it is the combination of his claims what he is that makes it doubtfull if he slipped thru the net. Also his own statement on the question why he isn't mentioned in Prien's JG 53...."he didn't make the cut as he had only 5 victories and Prien's book only list the pilots with more than 7 victories...." What a BS. If he is genuine the answer is in Aachen or Berlin.

Re: Luftwaffe POWs in Russia
 

Boy I hope you guys are wrong about Mr. Dulias. Because if you are not I feel like a total a**. Had him sign this when I met him at a lecture.

Re: Luftwaffe POWs in Russia
 

Hi,

Has anyone actually put any or all of this to Herr Dulias? With detailed questions he should be able to give detailed answers.

Back in the 1980s I was involved with a small film about part of the 'Battle of the Bulge'. One of my fellow advisors was a German man purporting to be an ex high ranking Panzer officer, highly thought of by the producers, but to me something didn't seem quite right, basically he was a 'hero' in just too many actions, in too many areas at just the right time. After approaching him with several pertinent questions, one to one, it transpired that he had in fact been a Gefreiter in a Panzer IV tank crew and had only got out of training late in '44. He had bulled up his rank and adventures because he enjoyed the attention and involvement and didn't think that too many would take him seriously as an advisor if they knew that he had ' only been a Gefreiter '. After advising him to the contrary he played down the Teutonic superhero role, and concentrated on general advising. His own story I actually found more interesting anyway, and he certainly had a great memory for detail - two weeks on he even showed me some of his old photos and memorabilia - something he couldn't have done if he'd stuck to his story!

I don't know enough about Luftwaffe rank and training systems to pass any further comment on Herr Dulias but it would be good for him and us to get this ironed out before someone ends up with 'egg on their chin'!

Regards

David

Re: Luftwaffe POWs in Russia
 

Hello David,


I've sent you a private message to help with sorting things out.


Ed

Re: Luftwaffe POWs in Russia
 

Gentlemen. I am involved in the hosting of veteran speakers at the MidAtlantic World War II weekend in Reading, PA. Gottfried has been a guest speaker over the past two years, and a special guest of the Luftwaffe re-enactors who participate in the event.

It is best to avoid speculation and go right to the source. This is the fairest and most direct recourse. I will alert him about this thread and ask him to kindly provide answers to your queries.

As an aside, Mr. Dulias is an outstanding guest and a true gentleman, whose message about his experiences focus on the extent and breadth of man's inhumanity to man. My opinion, worth little of offered nonetheless: The images, recollections and emotional conveyances of his career and especially of his comrades' tragic deaths in Russia are vividly valid independent of whether either a fighter type or a date is misidentified, or whether he fails to appear in rarefied and disheveled late war records. Sometimes the judgements on this site are a tad harsh and made with a bit too much alacrity without the full facts from all concerned (see the Fred Arnold thread, above)

I am sure that he will be able to clear this up quickly.

Michael Chorney

Re: Luftwaffe POWs in Russia
 

Apology in advance. In running out of my office and hurriedly posting, I made mention of a thread (Fred Arnold topic) which should have been a referral to that found on the history channel website, not that found on this discussion board which was started by Mr. Horta and which posed a legitimate question. This was a mistake on my part.

Re: Luftwaffe POWs in Russia
 

Michael I can understand someone may feel bitter with those questions but we are facing this very same dilema here in Brasil. A pilot is placing on paper his recollections as a Luftwaffe fighter pilot but I could not confirm till now he was a pilot in the unit he mentions...

Re: Luftwaffe POWs in Russia
 

To Mr. Michael Chorney: We will wait for the evidence of Mr. Dulias. Documents or statements on his military career are the most important factors. Which unit (Staffel, Gruppe) did he belong to, does he remember comerades, etc. Especially anything on paper would help. Scans can be posted here. Again, the answer is probably in Berlin (WASt).

To Sergio; be careful, a few years ago I stumbled on a ground crew member of JG 6. I have sufficient documents concerning his military career. When I found him I called him and also spoke to his younger wife (married after the war) and was surprised to learn he told his wife that he was a pilot in ZG 26, JG 26 and JG 6. All definetely not true.......

Re: POWs in Russia and Mr. Dulias
 

Dear Gentlemen: I alerted Gottfried Dulias to the concerns raised on this thread. He responded quickly with a lengthy missive and is very interested in communicating with members of this site. I suggested, however, that he first read the material presented here so that he can provide a more focused and pithy response to the specific raised flags. Moreover, he will need to register to reply. I suspect, however, that what will be required to satisfy John and others will indeed be a deeper search into records. As this site is focused on history, and needless to say, veracity, this is the necessary course. I agree. What I hope can result is a meaningful and fruitful communication with Gottfried, who is very willing to respond to the best of his ability.

With respect to Sergio, bitter, my goodness, far from it. As I said, I am involved with hosting guest speakers at the airshow. During my preparative work of seeking lecturers, I have unfortunately run into a number of Luftwaffe imposters, whose ruse is apparently easier to maintain because of occassionally scanty records from their service years. The most recent was a fellow who claimed to have flown with NJG1, NJG6, and JG27. He came complete with a Luftwaffe business card, and claimed 50 kills, quickly dissipating his story. My motto, apropos to history, is that of Yale: lux et veritas.

All the best and cheers, Mike

Re: Luftwaffe POWs in Russia
 

Does anyone have info on the loss of a Spitfire flown by a Lt Fred Browning in Aug/Sept 1944?

One would think that there would have been other I-16s shot down, any claims reported for I-16s in late 44/early 45?

Re: Luftwaffe POWs in Russia
 

Kind of messy thread, I hope this is the right content for the split?

Re: Luftwaffe POWs in Russia
 

Just add Kutscha's reply concerning Lt. Fred Browning to the Dulias thread and then it is fine.

Re: Luftwaffe POWs in Russia
 

John, already asked Ruy, via PM, to put it in this thread.

Re: Gottfried Dulias
 

Okay, I hope this is it :)

Re: Gottfried Dulias
 

Gentlemen: Mr. Dulias e-mailed me earlier this week to convey his decision to neither visit this website nor to respond to the questions posed within this thread, which I put forward to him. Too bad that a dialogue could not be established and that it had to end at loggerheads, although it is his view that such an exchange would not be fruitful, and he is most probably correct. His book is published by AuthorHouse, 1663 Liberty Drive, Suite 200, Bloomington, Indiana, 47403, should you wish to contact him via his publisher.

Cheers, Mike

Re: Gottfried Dulias
 

Hi,

It's a great pity that something couldn't have been put forward to 'knock this on the head' and close the thread positively.

If you go to www.authorhouse.com (there is a UK site too) and search for key words Gottfried Dulias you will find purchase details for the book and a short excerpt regarding GD's capture and how he had to hand over his Luger and get rid of a photo of himself in civvies wearing a Party badge. Not the best of positions to be in?

Regards,

David

Re: Gottfried Dulias
 

In Micheal Maslov's monography he says:

- no I-16s reported in the VVS from early 1944 on the EF
- 1 I-16 in the Northern Fleet airforce as of 1-1-45
- all I-16s (~40) removed from PVO service mid 1944

The only unit operating the I-16 was the 888th IAP in the Far East.

Re: Gottfried Dulias
 

Well plane (mis-)identification shouldn't be the primary concern here, however it seems that Herr Dulias remains somewhat of an enigma. I had hoped that Jochen Prien might react to this thread.

However, I would like to caution against a "guilty unless proven innocent" attitude.

How complete are the records that have been discussed in this thread?

It would be nice if someone could dispel any doubt.

Re: Gottfried Dulias
 

I have little Knowledge of JG 53 but he claims his aircraft was marked yellow 6 with a white fuselage band. Does this help with what unit he flew with?

Re: Gottfried Dulias
 

Dear Ruy,

although I have followed this thread from time to time so far I did not feel inclined to enter the discussion as I simply don't have the time to dive any deeper in this matter for instance by contacting the BA at Aachen Kornelimünster to check the personal file of said Leutnant Dulias. And quite frankly from what I can see on this thread it doesn't trigger any bit of of interest to spend my time looking for information on a Lt. Dulias.

From what I have gathered so far I can only offer my personal and private opinion and that is that I don't believe a word of the "career" of this Leutnant; may be he was with the Luftwaffe and even JG 53 as some part of the ground staff and may be he was a Russian POW but so far I have found no piece of information that would lend any credibility to his story.

Having spoken to many former fighter pilots in my time it strikes me that in his account "Lt." Dulias never mentions any names of his Kommandeur, his Staffelkapitän, his Kaczmarek or his close friends. Nor does he become specific about the unit he flew with - I can hardly remember any of the veterans I have spoken with in the past who didn't recall what Staffel he belonged to because the Staffel was their - if I may put it this way - home and family.

Then it strikes me that the locations where he - according to his story - saw combat do not really match with JG 53. No part of JG 53 was ever stationed at Aachen and it would be very odd to name Aachen instead of the Feldflugplätze and Einsatzhäfen from which III./JG 53 did actually operate during this time. There were other prominent places closer to the respective airfields. North of Budapest doesn't convince me either. If he were with that unit he must have been first with III./JG 53 and later with I./JG 53. I don't know of many pilots who were posted in this direction during this time.

Two Spitfires in the West without any further information - how to comment on that. Three I-16 Ratas in the East in January / February 1945 seems totally unbelieveable and as such was hardly a question of mis-identification; if it were a case of the latter, then other pilots of I./JG 53 would also have claimed Ratas around this time which in fact they didn't. Or were those Ratas reserved for Lt. Dulias ?

So at the end of the day to me it all appears to be a badly pieced together fabricated "combat career" the like of which we have seen before. The reaction of "Leutnant" Dulias not to enter into this dicussion and not to offer any tangible proof for his story doesn't really add to his credibility. But, again, this is just my personal point of view and I would not have any problem to make my excuses to Mr. Dulias if he were able to give appropriate substance to his extraordinary exploits.

All the best

Jochen Prien

Re: Gottfried Dulias
 

Dear Ruy,

fiurther to my recent message I would like to add that during my work on the history of JG 53 I have never come across anybody who mentioned a Lt. Dulias; I have spoken to Hans Ring about him and he too could only state that he had never heard of a German fighter pilot of that name nor that he had any documentary trace that a Lt. Dulias ever claimed to have shot down a British or Russian a/c, be it with JG 53 or any other unit.

Jochen Prien

Re: Off-topic
 

Dear Mr. Prien,

please try to find some free time concerning the matter with Mr. Cech.

thanks

Jan

Re: Gottfried Dulias
 

Below is a colour poster referencing Mr. Dulias.

http://i1.ebayimg.com/01/i/05/95/15/0a_1.JPG

Did any new info on his Luftwaffe career surface?

Re: Gottfried Dulias
 

I belonged to an organization years ago which sponsored reunions of WW 2 aircrew. At one of these events a former Luftwaffe kampfflieger showed up, claiming to be a Ritterkreuztraeger. Some research on our part showed that this was complete rubbish. The stories grow larger than life sometimes with the passage of time.

Re: Gottfried Dulias
 

Hi guys

I have been following this saga with great interest, and can tell you that such fantasists exist - or did - within British circles. During the course of many years of research/writing I personally am aware of at least three charming gentlemen who tried to convince others - and perhaps themselves - that they had been fighter pilots at Malta during WWII. I expect it all depends on how far they are prepared to continue the pose.

Cheers
Brian

Re: Gottfried Dulias
 

He doesn't feature in official records, he won't confirm/defend his position and he wears a period uniform. Noted authors and researchers have never heard of him.

Circumstantially I think it has been proved he is not genuine - though rather than condemn him we should appreciate he has issues that have led to his deceiving the world for goodness knows how many years.

If anyone is in a position to advise him to 'retire' without delay, they should. At the very least he should consider Police interest in any financial gains over the years from his deception.

He might consider calling it a day at book signings. But . . .

. . .if he is genuine, lets see the evidence.