HP Hampden P4321 of 49 Sqn
 

It there anyone who has made a study of 49 Sqn to know what individual code was carried by P4321?

Also what Operation was the Sqn on during the night of 27/28th November 1940.

P4321 got lost on return and made a forced landing at RAF Christchurch in Hampshire with arrival being given as 0850 hrs on 28th which seems quite late assuming a take off before midnight on 27th! The reason stated in Station records for the landing was failure of Nav aids and Hydraulics.

Incidentally the pilot was Pilot Officer Evans who I understand was Brian H Evans - one of the 50 escapers shot after breaking out of Stalag Luft 3 in March 1944.

Any info on this Hampden greatfully received

Re: HP Hampden P4321 of 49 Sqn
 

Don't knew if this is true but it certainly makes an interesting story:


http://www.ma-squadron.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=966

28-11-40 P4321 Hampden,49 Sqdn.Force landed after getting lost on ops over Germany.
Crew thought they were in Holland.Out of fuel.Carpeted for not destroying their aircraft!


http://daveg4otu.tripod.com/airfields/xchres.html

P4321 Hampden forced landing 28-11-40. 49 Sq.
werke Nr 4477/GD+EG Bu131B. Stolen from Luftwaffe aerodrome at Caen on. 29-April 1941 by two ex-Armee de l'Air pilots, Heberd and Bergerac,It was flown across the Channel, intercepted by the RAF and landed at Christchurch.It was repainted in RAF camouflage and markings and flown ('unofficially') by pilots from the Special Duties Flight (TRE). Shortly after, orders came for the aircraft to be shown in London as an exhibit for 'War Weapons Week', so it was hastily repainted in Luftwaffe markings and sent to London on 22nd May, where it was vandalised by souvenir hunters. It was returned to TRE later and serial no. DR626 was allocated, but there were too many parts missing for it to be flown again. Struck off charge at TRE on 1.8.41 and presumed scrapped. (Additional info via BIA Yahoo group).

If this is true, it took the aircarft not 8 hours but 5 months to return to the UK..... :)

Re: HP Hampden P4321 of 49 Sqn
 

Sorry to say that I am very familiar with daveg4otu.tripod. Much of what is on his web page is suspect or rather not cross referenced so any old bit of info goes on there as gospel.

As for P4321 there is no evidence that the crew were carpeted for not destroying their aircraft - unless this is in 49 Sqn records though I doubt it. Any way they landed in daylight!

However I am very greatful for the link concerning the 1000 lb bomb in Mudeford. I was after a photo of it as it caused the cancellation of a family party when it was found.

Re: HP Hampden P4321 of 49 Sqn
 

P4321 EA-T

No information on the time of arrival but the delay in return was due to instrument problems over the target area - the target being Cologne.

Crew - P/O evans, Sgt Parrish, P/O Halls and Sgt Davies.

Source: "Beware of the Dogs at War: An Operational Diary of 49 Squadron" (2nd Ed) John Ward

BTW I do not believe that the Evans of teh above incident is the same one who was shot after the Great Escape. Though the initials of the first Evans is not recorded in the book, the latter Evans was a F/Lt at the time he was shotdown. Highly unlikely someone would have skipped two ranks within a week.

A

Re: HP Hampden P4321 of 49 Sqn
 

Many thanks Amrit.

Regarding Evans in the Hampden File by Harry Moyle (Air Britain) the entry for the loss of P4404 EA-R on 6/7.12.40 says P/O BH Evans as POW along with the rest of the four man crew. I knew Harry Moyle well and as an ex Hampden man I know he was very careful with the info in his book and he definately consulted the Sqn ORB and records etc at Kew.

Interestingly Bill Chorley also says P/O BH Evans in the entry covering the loss of P4404 in Bomber Command Losses for 1940!

F/Lt Brian Herbert Evans of the Great Escape was supposedly made POW on Hampdens (so prior to April 1942 change to Avro Manchester) and yet I cannot find another BH Evans lost in such an aircraft either KIA or POW. I doubt there were two BH Evans's on 49 Sqn at the same time.

Which begs the question if 49 Sqn records (as noted by Moyle & Chorley) recorded his rank in error as Pilot Officer, was Brian H Evans perhaps already a F/O and due a promotion that was confirmed in captivity? Or was the CWGC wrong?

Someone must have looked at the service records for the 50 murdered Great Escapers if they are available at the National Archives.

Re: HP Hampden P4321 of 49 Sqn
 

I've gone through the pages of the book (it doesn't have a proper index!) and I noe believe the entry for the loss of B H Evans being a F/Lt is a typo. At the time, according to the LG he was a P/O. This seems to be confirmed by the fact that there is a scan of a picture of the funeral of Sgt John Shaw, who was shot whilst a POW in 1942, where one of the pall bearers was Brian Evans, and he is referred to as P/O. So a contradiction in the book within two pages of each other.

A

Re: HP Hampden P4321 of 49 Sqn
 

It is logical that P/O Brian H Evans would attend the funeral of Sgt John Shaw as Shaw was the pilot when they were shot down in P4404 on 6/7th Dec 1940. And in case anyone is wondering, it was common at this time for pilots to act as Observers as was the case with P/O Evans, especially as he had a few 'dicky' landings in the weeks before in L4195 on 17.10.40 and P4321 on 28.11.40

I wonder if POWs received promotions while in captivity?

Re: HP Hampden P4321 of 49 Sqn
 

Sgt John Shaw, aged 23 attempted to escape from Stalag Luft 1 across the snow outside the wire, covered by a white sheet. Spotted by one of the guards, John stood up and raised his arms in surrender and turned to face the German guard who then shot and killed him. The Germans did hold an enquiry into the incident, but its conclusions are not recorded. John Shaw was buried with full military honours. P/O Evans, another crew member, was destined to be executed by the Gestapo during the mass escape from Sagan.
Extract from 'Beware the Dog at War' John Ward.

Re: HP Hampden P4321 of 49 Sqn
 

Yes they did. I have seen many such promotions after their capture and imprisonment, and in a few cases more than one promotion.

A

Re: HP Hampden P4321 of 49 Sqn
 

Re: HP Hampden P4321 of 49 Sqn
 

Dear Aknevelman,

Thanks for the correction - yes I do know of this incident and I was in contact with Denys Boudard. As you may know the Shuttleworth Collection of historic aircraft painted their 'Bucker' as the Bu 131 that he stole and I was trying to get him to come to see it at the Shuttleworth Collection when I heard he had died.

Re: HP Hampden P4321 of 49 Sqn
 

It amazes me that two supposedly intelligent people(Aknevelman &Larry) can manage to turn two entries in a list into one and scramble the details into a "tall" story...notice that it says "Bu131B" after the w/n 4477/GD+EG...thousands of people have managed to read it correctly over the past 10 years.

The first line deals with P4321 and is correct.

The second and subsequent lines deal with w/nr4477 and are correct.

Larry - rather than making snide comments - if you think there is an error on the site(The error of the second frenchman's name was corrected some while ago) - eMail me - the "contact me" link is on almost every page of the site.On a site comprising several hundred pages it is inevitablte that there will be typo errors etc.

In other words back up your comments with constructive action.

Daveg4otu

Re: HP Hampden P4321 of 49 Sqn
 

Aknevelman,

Thank you for your post.

Denys Boudard died a few years back. He was delighted to hear that the 'Bucker' (CASA) at Shuttleworth Collection was painted in the colours of 'his' aircraft. As I have been researching RAF Christchurch for many years I was able to send details to the Shuttleworth Collection concerning the real Bu 131 and even started to make arrangements for Denys to visit Old Warden when I heard that he had died.

Jean Herbert was killed in 1943 in a Miles trainer over the North Sea coast (I do have the serial but not to hand) and it is thought that he was shot down in error by the Canadians.

Re: HP Hampden P4321 of 49 Sqn
 

After revisiting this tread more than a year later , it seems sad that "Larry" can't bring himself to apologise for blaming his error in misreading the " daveg4otu" website on the writer.